Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[benji]

What's the general feeling in the trans community on Kuina from Alice in Borderland? I recently binged the show and found her backstory very effective - my only issue was that she's played by a cis woman (although Aya Asahina was very good).

I find Cis ppl voicing trans characters to be unfortunate enough (see my avatar) but in live action I find it to be purely despicable to deprive trans actors of roles IMO.

I thought Testament was non binary and not trans?

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. To elaborate yes while there are some non-binary folks who don't identify as trans, many in fact do! all the Enbies I'm friends with consider themselves transgender!
and in Testiment's case, their complete disregard of everything gender makes them trans enby in my eyes, it also helps that their english VA is a trans woman as well.

dont think there's ever been a confirmation of trans like bridget

non-binary tho, yeah 100%

I just find them very trans-enby coded is all, i guess that's partly due to their trans va though.

On a related topic/tipI just discovered LillySimpson who looks at trans representation in media. Her King of the Hill episode is great.

The only issue i have with this is I'm just personally so tired of films that depict trans people always showing our impossibly hard, brutal lives. like yes its realistic but its done every damn time it's borderline torture porn for me at this point. It'd be nice to see a movie with a trans woman living a happy life not dealing with constant struggle or bigotry.

that said i may check that out just to have another trans thing to watch lol.

This is always a little complicated for me because I hate the idea of being trans as a spoiler or a twist or what have you... But also, these were immediately my answers as well, and the fact that these characters being trans wasn't something I was aware of before experiencing the stories made the realization so much more impactful to me…

The second character in particular… watching that play out is probably the most heartwrenching yet empowering and liberating representation of trans euphoria I've encountered in media.

The reality of the situation is there are a lot of trans actors out there looking for roles, and they often get passed up for cis actors even for trans characters because they happen to be trans. the only real exception lately is trans actors who pass, which is nice and all but they def don't represent most of us.

At least we're past Hollywood and Indie films casting men as trans woman FUCK that was an uncomfortable time, and it was like nearly every goddamn movie with a trans character too, unless they wanted to do ewww she has a dick gag, then they always cast the trans woman with the most attractive cis woman they can find for effect which honestly has put me off a LOT of classic movies. that gag is not just gross and bigoted, but it was so overplayed too.

Preach, Melody. Revisiting Ace Ventura: Pet Detective nowadays in particular was an... experience.

I went from loving that film to being completely unable to finish it, the transphobia is so central to the plot you cannot ignore it if you tried.

It is WILD that the crux of the entire movie boils down to 'this woman is transgender, thus we should humiliate and belittle her in front of dozens of people' and then the movie just ends with everyone in triumph. Truly disgusting portrayal and particularly writing.

Yes, it's a disgrace and it's not like it was Jim Carry's only problematic movie, he had a long line of films with bigoted content in the 90's and early 00's that are extremely hard to go back to do to various reasons.

Was struggling to think of one, then I remembered how much the Rockos Modern Life special with Rachel Bighead was when I first saw it

Was so good it gave me the courage to come out to my own Mom, which unfortunately did not go as good lol (it's fine tho we're mostly chill now outside a few small moments).

This absolutely doesn't count, but I still want to believe the queer baiting they did for Rivet and Kit from the recent R&C game.

Hate that I'm struggling to think of actual representation.

It sucks that a lot of the better trans characters that I can think of, particularly within genre fiction, are trans via subtext than actual representation. Even beloved characters like Nimona, who is undeniably a character rooted deep in trans identity, are still shown more through subtext than actual representation.

We simply aren't represented very well, and when given the focus its always about the miserable sides of trans identity than the positives.

But there are really fun options when we include such characters, like Rivet and Kit.

And to add to your point, when we do get represented its almost always focused on our pain and suffering to an uncomfortable extent.

Trying to think about this has made me realize I haven't seen or played much stuff with trans characters in it and I'm not sure if that says more about the entertainment industry or myself...

Don't worry it's not you.

Worth mentioning my avatar is a trans character from a Japanese fighting game. if a company like Arcsys can eventually handle this shit well, western and supposedly "more" progressive studios really gotta get their shit together.

Jules from Euphoria (two short clips that lead into each other, the end of which speaks to me a lot).

Jules means a massive amount to me tbh. The special episode that was co-written by Hunter Schafer is one of my favourite trans-related pieces of fiction ever, likely in part because it's imbued heavily with Hunter's own thoughts. Like where it's her exploring her transness and her relationship to femininity and how she's allowed it to be sculpted around men's views of attractiveness. The fear that runs through you when cis women analyse you.

This is without mentioning her backstory in S01E04 with the way trans children are treated and abused. Also in how dysphoria manifests – "Jules hated her life. She didn't have a bad life, but when you hate your mind and you hate your body is makes it hard to appreciate the rest". These are really powerful and important things to have in a mainstream show, particularly because it's portrayed by an actual trans woman.

The whole fact her transness is evident but not a focus. The way it's not centred on cis trauma around her identity or the pain of others due to it, and deals with the difficulties we face while simultaneously showing us as three-dimensional humans with love, aspirations and just generally *living*.

The fact that the vast majority of these are from cartoons or comic books makes me feel a certain way.

Whiterose from Mr Robot. As a Chinese trans woman, I would be like her if I couldn't transition, got old and bitter and hate humanity, and insanely powerful and manipulative.

Fortunately I avoided that. But I still love her

Know what, I only watched coronation Street as a kid with my nan. And reading through the Wikipedia, I had absolutely no clue she was a trans character.

So I really have to champion this one too, because Hayley was a cultural icon for a very long time here in the UK.

Even her coat is iconic here. Real shame they killed her off, seems a bit of an extreme way to let go of the character.

Kind of remarkable how we had this trans character, in this country of all places, take such a huge place on our screens for such a long time. I'm pretty sure she helped humanise trans people (if that's the correct way to frame it, if not, my apologies) in the eyes of the public and it's a real shame that a middle aged, out trans character like that, who is treated with sensitivity and respect, doesn't exist still. As far as I'm aware. I'm well out of touch with Hollyoaks and the other soaps these days.

As you say, it'd be quite easy to be unaware of her being trans, due to the fact storylines - for the most part - never alluded to it, as she was treated just another main character on the street after her reveal story was over.

J.J. Macfield from The Missing: J.J. Macfield and the Island of Memories.

I agree with everyone saying we need more trans representation that's not focused on our trauma. This isn't that. The game is basically trans trauma: the interactive experience. But it's very well done, it ultimately has an optimistic message, and I played it at the right time where I needed it. A good friend recommended I play this at the period in my life where I was going through the mental health crisis that is accepting my trans identity and struggling with what it meant for my future. There are scenes in this that resonated so hard I'll not only never forget them, I'll never forget where I was when playing my Switch and seeing the scenes. I love this game. I wish it wasn't so under the radar.

came here to shout this game out. I played it when I was still in the closet and it definitely moved the needle closer to cracking my egg.

"This is a story about regeneration" hits so hard at just the right moment it made me burst into tears. I tried to get everyone I knew to play this back in 2018 and nobody did.

Also, Leo in Tekken. Seems the devs are leaning on them being non-binary.

Now if the devs weren't deathly allergic to pronouns, it'd be even better.

Just gonna give a shout-out to Charlene McGowan, who my roommate can't stop gushing about.

I haven't yet encountered a fictional trans character in media to whom I could really relate, so I'm disappointed to say that I don't think I can name any.

That said, I probably don't consume nearly as much media as most people here, so that's likely a reason why, as well.

A newer entry, but I really liked Laurel (Nicole Maines) from Bit (2019)

The movie is on Tubi btw if anyone wants to check it out.

'Bout a girl who falls in with an all girl gang of vampires.

My favorites have already been mentioned, so I'll highlight someone from a game I recently played. Liz from Butterfly Soup 1 + 2

She's one of the leaders of an all-female baseball team.

Btw Butterfly Soup is a heartfelt vn with stellar representation for wlw relationships and the Asian American immigrant experience. The first VN is fluffier and sillier and is more focused on telling a relationship story with little flavorings of the representation here and there, whereas the sequel delves into it a lot more and is a little more serious that the first one but no less heartfelt.

Another character comes out later in 2 as non-binary (or at least starts using they/them), Min-seo.

Since she's one of my favourite Transformers, Arcee is up there, especially after writers other than Simon Furman got to write her in the IDW books (dear lilith those books were so filled with gay, bi, NB and trans characters, it still ticks me off they cancelled the IDW stuff). I really hope the shows and films finally acknowledge her as a trans lesbian and bring in her long time girlfriend Aileron.

Oh yeah, and if she's indeed trans, Gwen Stacy is all the way up there, too.

So all that iconography, subtext and allegory, the many trans people who found emotional connection to her story and accepted her, don't mean anything unless she announces in the next movie " I was assigned male at birth."

Yup, it's wild when folks read into characters being cis way more (often with less evidence backing them up) and aren't questioned for it.

Anyways, as a lifelong Metroid fan, Samus is my fav. She's a doomed, emotionally stunted, middle-aged cop, but she's still my favorite. Trans folks deserve loser rep too!

That's not what I meant. The thread is specifically about trans characters and Gwen is not yet 'officially' a trans character, that's all I meant with my response.

Obviously all the iconography, allegory and stuff is already fantastic and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Gwen is meant to be trans even if the movies won't explicitly spell it out.

I mean, you're still doing the thing I said. You're recognizing all the elements that have led to multiple trans people saying she's trans, and then acting incredulous at the thought of believing so unless she wears a shirt that says "my dead name was…"

Like etiira pointed out, it's some aggressive "Cis unless explicitly stated."

I know you meant well, and talked to Vonocourt about it.

Sometimes it's best to leave trans joy be though, right?

Like how much stuff do we get? And how much joyous mainstream stuff?

I get both of you, but it's not a thread for doubting trans icons, no? It's a thread to celebrate trans joy and characters that bring us that.

On retrospect Gwen is like obvious as shit, but I definitely didn't pick that up.

She's been mentioned several times, but Dreamer from Supergirl is a very important character to me personally. I credit her and the actress who played her, Nicole Maines, for helping me figure out I was trans and gain the courage to being my transition. She is one of the very few celebrities that I would go out of my way to meet. I just want to thank her in person some day.

Oh wow, amazing. I think my daughter mentioned this to me briefly but she didn't really have any supporting evidence, lol. But after reading your post, I'm a believer now! Like I don't even think it's ambiguous, it's very clear Gwen is trans and I'm glad the artists found a way to be direct with it.

about the commendations tbh I see the top as blue green and then a blue green checker, then white/red, then yellow/white and last one is purple

Real fuckin weird then isn't it that in the scene where he's at home with Gwen these intricate detailed commendations become horizontal bars of flat colours in the order of blue, pink, white, pink, blue. This film wasn't shot with a camera, it's not a lens effect or side effect of depth of field. It's an animation and each detail was drawn. The artists are aware of what a trans flag looks like since they've drawn one hanging on the wall of the daughter of the guy whose jacket we're discussing. You know a large trans flag that says 'protect trans kids' on it. So you have him at home with his commendations morphed to resemble a trans flag, and his daughter flying a trans flag on her wall. You have the colours of the scene when she comes out to her dad and explains the difficulty of hiding half of herself shift directly to deep blue hues, pinks and whites and banding of said colours on her hair. You have casual mention from Hobie asking if she's wearing his shoes. You have mentions of her playing with the same toys Miles did when she was a kid.

The point isn't to pick at these and be like "lol ackshually it's purple and that's a checkerboard blue" it's to understand this is an animation and these details were considered. That marvel/sony execs would never allow for Gwen to be explicitly trans so the best anyone could hope for is for her to be trans coded, which is what we got.

We could flip this and I could ask you why you believe she's cisgender. What do you have that she is? Why is it that the baseline assumption is that every character must be cisgender with a bar in the stratosphere before people accept they might be trans? To where you go at it with the intent of trying to invalidate the elements that point toward her being trans instead of coming up with reasoning for why she's cis.

So I find it like, super hard to believe your intent wasn't to nitpick one aspect with the intention of disproving it when every single post in this thread has been about doing just that.

This thread has made me really realize how few options there are in the media I most often consume.

Fuck yeah. This was going to be my answer. There's also a specific Dreamer storyline in Supergirl that relates to her gender made me tear up with all the emotions.

Anyone who wants a feel-good show that tackles progressive (and regressive) issues in a cosy and positive way, from creatives who wanted to push back against the bullshit post 2016, really need to give Supergirl a watch. Yeah, it's a bit on the nose; and that's what I didn't know I needed until Supergirl served up its final couple of seasons a few years back.

...This is amazing. That number 2 screenshot in particular is absolutely screaming trans coding; to say nothing of all the parallels in her character arc. All I noticed was the poster, and figured that's exactly the kind of poster a cis teen girl with trans friends would have. If I were a better viewer, I'd have seen the flag, and that should have primed me to pick up on the other elements. Things like the flag on her dad's lapel - no shit it changes, it's supposed to. His support and understanding of her spidering is in flux. He's capable of it, but we can all see how easily he could fail his daughter and push her further away.

Speaking of Gwen being trans, there's also evidence that Hobie is also trans or possibly enby. The designer even said they purposely made him genderqueer since that was an important part of punk.

If there was any doubt that the artists knew exactly what they were doing with Gwen, I feel like this delicious tidbit quashes it pretty decisively. Cannot wait to watch it again with all this in mind.

I feel so annoyed that the colors during Gwen's speech didn't register to me as the trans flag colors. I love picking apart little details like that. This is what I get for not playing Celeste till after Across the Spider-Verse.

Same! I was completely oblivious. There's so much stuff going on in terms of the movie's visuals, but that's also the reason the animators were able to get away with this.

I love trans joy so much.