Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[benji]

Don't let em tell you this wasn't telegraphed over a month ago:

Constructive dump:

We warn or ban the wrong person on the wrong day in the wrong topic using the same process we did for the thousands of reports we've done for the past several months where no one complained, and all of a sudden we're here in this situation, where Discord brigades are happening, forum brigades are happening, Twitter is blowing up, I and other staffers are getting Discord pings demanding explanations when we're off trying to live our lives, we're seeing reactionary conspiracy theories form in real time on the forum completely unchecked, members who see what's going on and try to push back get dogpiled, all of this is happening while we're being called out as not having "learned a lesson," when this isn't even the first time we've been here and subsequently not the first time we've actually moved in response to member demand.
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I've been apologizing about accidentally setting people off since I was an Ace Moderator, sometimes over decisions I hadn't even been involved in. I've had hours long meetings with my team over the course of these years trying to find a way where we can just get to a fucking place, as adults, where something like this doesn't turn into an embarrassing online revolt against people who you can easily target versus the real folks out there actually doing damage in this godforsaken world. Like goddamn, you would've thought that we fired 1900 people.

I'm personally over it. The brigading, the Discord drama. I'm fucking done with it. Members here either want to act like adults, or they don't.

However, when that misalignment happens, and trust me this is going to happen in the future, I insist our jobs should not be made infinitely harder. We shouldn't have threads completely taken over and derailed. We shouldn't be shouted at on our personal Discords. We shouldn't have people trying to figure out who did it and making up the most ridiculous motives as for why. People hound us down, demanding an explanation that frankly they would literally never get on any other social media platform (act out like this on Twitter, or Facebook, or Reddit, or TikTok, or anywhere else, and see how far you get), like we actually are fucking beat cops killing folks in the street.

It's hurt and vulnerable people (along with a few people who are genuinely assholes and have no real stake in the drama) turning their frustrations on the next most convenient target- staff members on a damn forum because, hey, any hierarchy is as good as any to instigate revolt, I guess- for when something goes wrong, instead of remembering that we're also hurt and vulnerable people, and subsequently we are not out to get folks. Half the time shit is going on I'm away at my job. Like what the fuck am I supposed to do?

All I really ask for is some grace, for 25-30+ year old adults, to just act with a bit more maturity when they disagree with a ban. That's it. I'm not asking for blind agreement with our decisions, because we are long past the point where staff have understood- despite popular belief- that we are indeed fallible, and sometimes we fuck up, and when that happens we apologize (seriously, where the hell is this new rumor coming from that we don't ever apologize or reverse bans?!) I'm asking folks to just literally fucking stop.

That's it. Just stop it. Enough.

But really, my bigger question is, if we're serious about trying to temper emotions, is really like...why do a lot of y'all just assume the absolute worst of us? Why do you need to fill in the gaps of knowledge with animosity in the first place?

Sure, I will admit that there's an "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to staff and users, but I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. I, personally, don't think the majority of users are really a problem. 99% of my time spent on this forum is neutral to pleasant. In general, I would wager that most active members right now don't even really know what's going on, and that this is all a niche problem on a niche space on the larger Internet as a whole. It takes half a step to get to a bubble where ResetEra doesn't even exist in that bubble's mindshare.

But I will also admit that after years of being deliberately taken in bad faith by both consistent sects of users, and understanding that a lot of animosity is fomented on Discords where I have no control before being brought here on the forum and resulting in brigades, that I am, as a person, under no obligation to constantly assume good faith on everyone. I have a right to be suspicious that any given member I'm talking to on matters of policy might be taking my posts off forum to shit on me and twist my words (hell, I know for a fact they're taking my normal participation posts off to places like KF and the Bore to shit on me lol). I have a right to be suspicious that any questions I'm being prodded with are being asked with an ulterior motive, and that they're trying to get answers out of me. I have a right to notice when certain folks who show up time and time again in drama spells suddenly come at me in a topic wherein I've literally never had any actual direct contact with them, but they seem to have a whole lot of deep-seated resentment for me.

Trust is broken. But that goes both ways. You can't have your staff constantly harassed, mocked, and attacked on and off the forums by large swathes of members for extended periods of time, and then go "Gee, I don't know why you think we're a potential outburst waiting to happen; we're not gonna bite." The harsh truth is that y'all are, because outbursts happen without any real foresight on our end, we get shit on as being entirely the problem, and nothing is learned. Respect is further eroded. So you, individually, might be fine, and again we've not had any beef with each other. But at the same time I don't know you as a person and we certainly don't interact enough to be what I would consider a true online friends. Why should I trust you, or any other specific member who I've not had extended offline interaction with, as if you are a close friend?

Once again, I will reiterate that moderation have taken steps across the years to implement feedback channels, moderation procedures, and technological updates to the forums to A.) try and provide clearer communication to members about bans, B.) be more lenient on people and provide ways of clemency, and C.) Try to prevent topics from spiralling into nonsense where fires have a greater potential to occur.

Acting like we've done nothing is part of the frustration I and other staffers have. Again, I've been in the trenches since like 2018 or so constantly apologizing to people, regardless of whether or not I was the one who pulled the trigger on a decision, constantly ensuring people that we aren't bigots, constantly having discussions and roundtables with people, and constantly working with staff in the wee hours of the morning or actually on the clock at my real job(s) to get these agenda items off the ground. Seems like no one cares when we're right here again because we banned a popular-enough member, because people seem to act as if we've done nothing and we've not "learned a lesson." Again, at this point, what lesson is there to learn except "don't ban the people I like?" Because that's not going to happen if the people you like break the rules.

I'm also weary of talking in generalities and platitudes. I'm a materialist; I like concrete ideas and suggestions based upon an observable consensus for any given issue. Saying "Mods need to apologize more" and "Mods need to explain more" doesn't wash with me, because we've done that already, and clearly the problem isn't fixed. So what do you think we specifically need to do to "break the cycle of distrust" that also simultaneously doesn't open the entire moderation backend to the public? Subsequently, what do you think members should do on their end to actually uphold their end of the bargain, if anything?

And replace us with who? Applications have stalled in part because a lot of people we do pick out and want to interview have told us there's absolutely no way they'd do this job because they've seen how the member base can act towards the staff.

Uh-oh. Now Hecht is throwing his hat in the ring:

If people could fucking grow up and stop doing those two things, I guarantee this forum would be the most enjoyable place on the internet for discussing gaming. I sure as hell know that our jobs would be easier. I could actually stop stressing about upcoming announcements for once.

This forum is definitely a product of the "lifeboats" from NeoGAF, where hundreds of users escaped to Discord and ultimately, ResetEra was born. In theory, there is nothing wrong with Discord. Hell, we use it for staff. But because of the nature of a lot of the Discord communities, they tend to become very insular - you aren't gonna find many Xbox fanboys in the Sony Discord, and vice-versa. They are communities focused on a specific topic/platform - and that's fine. The problem is that they become very, very protective of their own. A "prominent" member in those Discords could suddenly be banned on ResetEra, for a very legitimate reason, and then the rest of the Discord server becomes incensed because "hey, we love that guy, why did they get banned? I DEMAND ANSWERS AND RECOMPENSE!"

To put it bluntly, we do not give a shit, nor two shits, about who your favorite users are. If someone crosses a line, they will receive the same punishment as any other user. If you feel like your buddy is inching close to that line, it's on you to tell them "hey, dude, maybe tone it down a bit," if they aren't learning from their previous infractions on the site. We do not care if they are the person in your Discord that leaks the most information, provides the most insight, or helps the most people out - if they cannot control their behavior on ResetEra, then they will receive the same punishments as the users before them. If they cannot stop their disruptive behavior, then they won't be part of the site much longer. We. Do. Not. Care. Act like fucking adults.

We also are not oblivious to brigading. When a user from a Discord gets banned, we definitely see an influx of users that we know are a part of that Discord suddenly flood reports and tickets with appeals or not-subtle messages on what we can do with our mothers. For those of you submitting those, you certainly aren't helping your/their case. It just shows us that you're stuck in some sort of cult of personality and, let's be frank, we don't care about your cult.

3) Us acknowledging our mistakes

lol

we've done this tons of times. If you haven't seen it, congrats - you aren't part of some weird-ass Discord constantly demanding our heads.
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What I don't understand is this - I don't understand what has gotten into your heads that makes you think that we're out to get you. Users are what makes this site actually, you know, work. There is literally no incentive for us to make shit up. If we put a banner on someone's post where they are banned, stating "prior infractions for X," then that's because we are acknowledging a pattern. If you have to sit back and wonder whether we are making shit up or not, please ask yourself, "why am I doing this? And what has gone so wrong in my life where I'm worried about whether or not the people running a fucking video gaming forum are being truthful or not?" You don't need to know. 
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Seriously. We have no reason to make up shit. Yes, there may be escalations of bans where you are not privy to the entire history, but I promise you we aren't just making shit up. We don't have the time, nor the mental wherewithal to fucking do that. It takes all of our energy to just respond to people questioning whether or not we made a decision because someone liked someone's Pinterest post in the past.

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Lastly, again. We have no fucking reason to lie to you all. Sure, we're gonna make mistakes. And yeah, you're gonna have to make the enormous leap in trusting us when it comes to ban escalation (speaking of which, where's Twitter's ban history? Facebook's? etc.). We aren't "against you." Sure, there is a sense of "us v them" because we're management and we're the closest form of "authority" on this site.

It's fine. I get it. But we are not going to be able to solve your problems. And we certainly aren't going to be able to suddenly fix people's behavior. A user above (sorry, can't be arsed to scroll up) asked why we don't just perm everyone - it's because if it's something not completely horrible - e.g., hostility - maybe that person is just having a bad day and they just need a break. It is our honest hope that people learn from their mistakes. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. We all benefit when we can just have an actual conversation rather than shouting at each other into the void.

I'm going to be real, you all also need to stop treating us like we're Congress or something. I don't have the nuclear codes. There is no army. We're not elected officials, this isn't government, it's an Internet forum and some of you need to start acting like you understand that because, for some reason, when people are mad at real stuff that anger gets taken out on us and that gets old really fast.

You guys need to understand, there are people who's entire personality is literally hating on specific mods and finding any reason to shit on all of us collectively. Like, I already got a guy following me around and sniping whenever he gets a chance. Nep has a few of them and so do other mods. There's users who will sit in their discords and literally make crap up about us based on nothing but their own head cannon and random delusions until they spill over onto the main forum.

There's another issue, sometimes bans get undone because a private piece of information gets shared with us that totally changes how a post gets read. So we'll undo the ban but keep the secret because it's not ours to tell. As a result, us undoing a ban but keeping a public record of it could put not only us but the user in question in a bad situation.

I should also note that there are situations where something really really bad is brought to our attention and we need to act on it in a specific way. In these situations we won't always be able to tell everyone what is really going down because doing so could potentially put someone who has done nothing wrong at risk. It isn't an overly common thing, but there are absolutely moments where we literally cannot tell you guys the truth about a ban or a choice that was made or whatever. This is generally the case when full disclosure would put someone who didn't actually do anything bad in the cross-hairs.

You guys gotta understand, sometimes when we're not saying anything we're just waiting for people to chill out so we actually get heard and there can be a constructive discussion. However, there are times when we're standing between an angry mob who wants a head, any head, on a pike and someone who didn't actually do anything wrong.