Kulturkampf

[Potato]

American patriotism is over the top and embarrassing. In fact, all patriotism is embarrassing.

[Alpacx]

[Uncle]

American patriotism is over the top and embarrassing. In fact, all patriotism is embarrassing.

anti-patriotism and constant self-flagellation over how eeeeeevil some ancient dudes were when they colonized or whatever is equally embarrassing

you're not your ancestors, grow a fucking backbone

it's not really even about patriotism, it's about not being filled with useless self-doubt and self-deprecation and bending over backwards for people eager to take advantage of you

"you need to constantly apologize for your race and culture but also no amount of apologies will ever be enough, reparations now!!"

[HaughtyFrank]

Pretty reasonable response. I think Riley Gaines targeting some random highschool trans kid in the middle of nowhere isn't really a good look either.
Of course nuance is dead though and people will now jump on Biles for daring to suggest that there are things about trans athletes that should be considered by the sport organizations

[benji]

Honestly confused by the anger people express at the mere suggestion to use the American flag. Isn't the whole protest about letting people live in the US? How is waving the flag of foreign nations not a counter message to that? What exactly are they intending to express when they let the Mexican flag fly?

You posted above and it's true, the idea that America is evil and needs to be destroyed is an article of faith on the left. They love the idea of an image that Mexicans are reclaiming the territory from the Great Satan.

I think both of these statements are circling the same point, which is that its legitimately a shame that 'the left' have fully ceded the concept of patriotism to 'the right'.
Like, you would assume a left leaning individual would take pride in things like being a contributing member of society and paying their taxes, because your country is your society, and you can't have socialism without that sense of pride in your community and doing things for a greater good.

I'd like to think that maybe this happened because patriotism and nationalism are dangerously close, but the depressing truth is I think it's more likely a combination of 'intersectionality' creating tribalism and people deciding their own tiny inherently minority society is the only one that actually counts (and having its own flag!) and the knee jerk response of "I'm for everything those guys aren't!" as ideological stance

It's a remnant of the old leftist ideal of internationalism. They don't want to be part of the community that is America because America is evil. They want to be part of the superior global community, originally the Soviet Bloc but now the nameless faceless masses of poor colored people with "authentic" lives in tune with nature.

If you want to accept the disingenuous idea, put out by gas lighters,  that progressiveness is about the US "being bad" then go right ahead and be a fucking idiot.


I believe it was albert einstein that said patriotism isn't believing your country is perfect and infallible, rather that you strive for perfection while acknowledging the shortcomings.

It takes like two seconds online to find that what most progressives oppose about America are its ideals like due process, free speech, democracy, etc. And this has always been true back to the capital-p Progressives. A society that, however imperfectly, prioritizes the rights and interests of the individual stands in the way of "progress" as conceived as a single mandatory goal for all.

The great irony is that many of the laments of the modern progressive are things imposed on America by the original Progressives for the same reasons as modern progressives want to impose things. They both see a corrupt backwards society that needs to be fixed by unchecked state power. This has always been the position of the left. Stuff like the ACLU was a tactical momentary exception that had to be done due to be a minority position, once the left thought it "won" we saw how quickly they turned on its original mission.

[HaughtyFrank]

I see ethnic cleansing is starting get thrown around more and more now

Edit:

[DavidCroquet]

American patriotism is over the top and embarrassing. In fact, all patriotism is embarrassing.

I like America

[Alpacx]

Pretty reasonable response. I think Riley Gaines targeting some random highschool trans kid in the middle of nowhere isn't really a good look either.
Of course nuance is dead though and people will now jump on Biles for daring to suggest that there are things about trans athletes that should be considered by the sport organizations

Apparently the boy pitched every single inning of the team's playoff run. No girl on the team got to pitch. It's shitty for him to be called out but the adults shouldn't be allowing him on the team. I don't know how you bring attention of the unfairness of boys playing in girls' sports without showing the boys.

[simiansmarts]

He's being genocided, she's being genocided, they're being genocided, I'M BEING GENOCIDED!  
 
Are there any other genocides I should know about?? 
 

[benji]

I see ethnic cleansing is starting get thrown around more and more now

Edit:

What's the ethnicity being cleansed?

[Potato]

American patriotism is over the top and embarrassing. In fact, all patriotism is embarrassing.

anti-patriotism and constant self-flagellation over how eeeeeevil some ancient dudes were when they colonized or whatever is equally embarrassing

you're not your ancestors, grow a fucking backbone

it's not really even about patriotism, it's about not being filled with useless self-doubt and self-deprecation and bending over backwards for people eager to take advantage of you

"you need to constantly apologize for your race and culture but also no amount of apologies will ever be enough, reparations now!!"

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm a child of migrants, so the whole self-loathing thing is lost on me. I have no guilt about what other people did in the past. 

Patriotism and the really embarrassing overt patriotism of the US are just dumb. I'm clearly very proud of being Australian and the things we as a nation have achieved, but I don't need to wave a flag and use the flag as a coercion tool to force someone else to behave in a way that's acceptable to me. I'm also happy to acknowledge our mistakes as a nation.

Patriotism to me is uncritical devotion to a nation. That's fucking retarded no matter which nation we're taking about. 

It's possible to appreciate your country without being a moron.

[HaughtyFrank]

The flag issue at the protests isn't even really about patriotism because these people clearly already are patriotic, it's just that they're patriotic about their country of origin and not the one they want to stay in. Hell, you don't have to fly the American flag either, but why bring another nations flag at all when this is specifically about how you want to stay in the US. This isn't Cinco de mayo or st. Paddy's day.

[DavidCroquet]

I love my mother country and would never deny her!


But for the love of god PLEASE don’t send me back there!

[benji]

American patriotism is stupid. But it's not because America sucks.

American patriotism was better before it became a world power, it was more humble and thoughtful. The two aren't actually connected, it was happenstance that occurred around the rest of the world falling behind. It was a deliberate movement in the United States that feared we weren't enough of a "real" nation. Teddy Roosevelt was maybe the biggest personal exemplar of it but Wilsonianism as a whole is couched in this thought. The whole idea of service to the nation was tied to this, the boy scouts -> army pipeline was about your duty to the nation. The greatest thing you could do is die for your nation, it's about prioritizing the state's interests over your own. The state's display of power is supposed to be read into your own value as a person.

You can see how you get from there to the way people act now about the flag or the anthem. America being an actual #1 for the bulk of that time just emphasizes the connection. "I can't be a failure or wrong, I'm an American and it's number one!"

[Potato]

American patriotism is over the top and embarrassing. In fact, all patriotism is embarrassing.

I like America

As you should. It's a pretty decent place in comparison to most places in the world. 

I would assume you're also capable of recognising some of its faults and admitting that there's some things that could be done better. 

I guess patriotism is different things to different people. I'm not into flag waving and overt stuff and think it's a bit embarrassing to be honest. You can appreciate your country without being blind about it's faults, which I assume everyone on thebire is capable of doing.

[Potato]

American patriotism is stupid. But it's not because America sucks.

American patriotism was better before it became a world power, it was more humble and thoughtful. The two aren't actually connected, it was happenstance that occurred around the rest of the world falling behind. It was a deliberate movement in the United States that feared we weren't enough of a "real" nation. Teddy Roosevelt was maybe the biggest personal exemplar of it but Wilsonianism as a whole is couched in this thought. The whole idea of service to the nation was tied to this, the boy scouts -> army pipeline was about your duty to the nation. The greatest thing you could do is die for your nation, it's about prioritizing the state's interests over your own. The state's display of power is supposed to be read into your own value as a person.

You can see how you get from there to the way people act now about the flag or the anthem. America being an actual #1 for the bulk of that time just emphasizes the connection. "I can't be a failure or wrong, I'm an American and it's number one!"

[benji]

Most Americans don't know the Pledge was created by a socialist to sell flags in order to increase nationalism:

In 1891, Daniel Sharp Ford, the owner of the Youth's Companion, hired Bellamy to work with Ford's nephew James B. Upham in the magazine's premium department. In 1888, the Youth's Companion had begun a campaign to sell US flags to public schools as a premium to solicit subscriptions. For Upham and Bellamy, the flag promotion was more than merely a business move; under their influence, the Youth's Companion became a fervent supporter of the schoolhouse flag movement, which aimed to place a flag above every school in the nation. Four years later, by 1892, the magazine had sold US flags to approximately 26,000 schools. By this time the market was slowing for flags but was not yet saturated.

In 1892, Upham had the idea of using the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus reaching the Americas / Western Hemisphere in 1492 to further bolster the schoolhouse flag movement. The magazine called for a national Columbian Public School Celebration to coincide with the World's Columbian Exposition, then scheduled to be held in Chicago, Illinois, during 1893. A flag salute was to be part of the official program for the Columbus Day celebration on October 12 to be held in schools all over the US.

The pledge was published in the September 8, 1892, issue of the magazine,[4] and immediately put to use in the campaign. Bellamy went to speak to a national meeting of school superintendents to promote the celebration; the convention liked the idea and selected a committee of leading educators to implement the program, including the immediate past president of the National Education Association. Bellamy was selected as the chair. Having received the official blessing of educators, Bellamy's committee now had the task of spreading the word across the nation and of designing an official program for schools to follow on the day of national celebration. He structured the program around a flag-raising ceremony and his pledge.

In his recollection of the creation of the Pledge, Francis Bellamy said, "At the beginning of the nineties patriotism and national feeling was [sic] at a low ebb. The patriotic ardor of the Civil War was an old story ... The time was ripe for a reawakening of simple Americanism and the leaders in the new movement rightly felt that patriotic education should begin in the public schools."[26] James Upham "felt that a flag should be on every schoolhouse,"[26] so his publication "fostered a plan of selling flags to schools through the children themselves at cost, which was so successful that 25,000 schools acquired flags in the first year (1892–93).[26]

As the World's Columbian Exposition was set to celebrate the 400th anniversary of the arrival of Christopher Columbus in the Americas, Upham sought to link the publication's flag drive to the event, "so that every school in the land ... would have a flag raising, under the most impressive conditions."[26] Bellamy was placed in charge of this operation and was soon lobbying "not only the superintendents of education in all the States, but [he] also worked with governors, Congressmen, and even the President of the United States."[26] The publication's efforts paid off when Benjamin Harrison declared Wednesday, October 12, 1892, to be Columbus Day for which The Youth's Companion made "an official program for universal use in all the schools."[26] Bellamy recalled that the event "had to be more than a list of exercises. The ritual must be prepared with simplicity and dignity."[26]

Edna Dean Proctor wrote an ode for the event: "There was also an oration suitable for declamation."[26] Bellamy held that "Of course, the nub of the program was to be the raising of the flag, with a salute to the flag recited by the pupils in unison."[26] He found "There was not a satisfactory enough form for this salute. The Balch salute, which ran, "I give my heart and my hand to my country, one country, one language, one flag," seemed to him too juvenile and lacking in dignity."[26] After working on the idea with Upham, Bellamy concluded, "It was my thought that a vow of loyalty or allegiance to the flag should be the dominant idea. I especially stressed the word 'allegiance'. ... Beginning with the new word allegiance, I first decided that 'pledge' was a better school word than 'vow' or 'swear'; and that the first person singular should be used, and that 'my' flag was preferable to 'the.'"[26] Bellamy considered the words "country, nation, or Republic," choosing the last as "it distinguished the form of government chosen by the founding fathers and established by the Revolution. The true reason for allegiance to the flag is the Republic for which it stands."[26] Bellamy then reflected on the sayings of Revolutionary and Civil War figures, and concluded, "All that pictured struggle reduced itself to three words, one Nation indivisible."[26]

Bellamy considered the slogan of the French Revolution, Liberté, égalité, fraternité ("liberty, equality, fraternity"), but held that "fraternity was too remote of realization, and … [that] equality was a dubious word."[26] Concluding "Liberty and justice were surely basic, were undebatable, and were all that any one Nation could handle if they were exercised for all. They involved the spirit of equality and fraternity."[26]

This was the salute you were supposed to give and did give until 1942:

Controversy grew in the United States on the use of the Bellamy salute given its similarity to the fascist salutes. School boards around the country revised the salute to avoid this similarity. There was a counter-backlash from the United States Flag Association and the Daughters of the American Revolution, who felt it inappropriate for Americans to have to change the traditional salute because foreigners had later adopted a similar gesture.[2]

What's even weirder is that some people know about his socialist views but not his other progressive views:

On immigration and universal suffrage, Bellamy wrote in the editorial of The Illustrated American, Vol. XXII, No. 394, p. 258: "[a] democracy like ours cannot afford to throw itself open to the world where every man is a lawmaker, every dull-witted or fanatical immigrant admitted to our citizenship is a bane to the commonwealth.”[6] And further: "Where all classes of society merge insensibly into one another every alien immigrant of inferior race may bring corruption to the stock. There are races more or less akin to our own whom we may admit freely and get nothing but advantage by the infusion of their wholesome blood. But there are other races, which we cannot assimilate without lowering our racial standard, which should be as sacred to us as the sanctity of our homes."[13]

The only controversy about this thing is the "under God" shit.

One of the great Supreme Court cases regarding free speech was the Court overruling itself that you can't be compelled to give the Pledge:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette overruled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minersville_School_District_v._Gobitis which said that the proper path for anyone who dissents from the state is to accept being compelled and trying to change the voters minds.

The foremost progressive Justice was angered at the court overturning his opinion after just three years:

The Justice who had written the Gobitis ruling in 1940 – Felix Frankfurter – strongly disagreed with how that precedent was being overturned in the Barnette ruling. Frankfurter reinforced his holding in Gobitis that those who disagree with a law should attempt to change it through the political process, rather than break that law due to religious conscience. "Otherwise each individual could set up his own censor against obedience to laws conscientiously deemed for the public good by those whose business it is to make laws." Thus, Frankfurter believed that the Barnette majority overstepped in striking down the West Virginia law, which had been passed by elected legislators.[1]

[Uncle]

I guess patriotism is different things to different people.

I think you use the word patriotism when you mean jingoism

but you don't want to say jingoism because jingo sounds like a racist term

look at that jingo over there, he needs to go back where he came from

[Potato]

I guess patriotism is different things to different people.

I think you use the word patriotism when you mean jingoism
but you don't want to say jingoism because jingo sounds like a racist term
look at that jingo over there, he needs to go back where he came from

Why don't you fuck off back to jingoland you jingoboo?

[Polident]

I guess patriotism is different things to different people.

I think you use the word patriotism when you mean jingoism

but you don't want to say jingoism because jingo sounds like a racist term

look at that jingo over there, he needs to go back where he came from

You had to collect them in the Banjo Kazooie games.

[killamajig]

A few more pics of DTLA today 




In the last one the guy on the right is a freelance photo journalist. I talked to him for bit and he told me yesterday he got hit in the foot with the possible rubber bullet. He said it didn't pierce the skin but hurt like hell. He had a fellow journalist get hit with a piece of a exploding tear gas can that embedded itself in his leg and had to go to the hospital to get her removed. 

I even talked to some California state troopers. I didn't get pictures of that because I wanted to come in on friendly terms. Their advice was if you want to stay safe down there avoid the big groups. Those are the ones they watch out for. If You're just walking around by yourself like I was. You probably don't have to worry about getting scooped up or shot at. But there was two main groups that were going around in opposite directions and would meet up and cheer and there would be a lot of noise. Cops will put down their visors on their riot helmets and get in ready positions whenever the large groups would get close. The trooper I talked to said he was from far away in northern California. I asked him if he's getting fed and hydrated. His buddy pulled a box of Mike and Ikes out of his shirt pocket and said this is his dinner. And you be surprised. Not surprised. A lot of law enforcement people are not white. So yeah who are they Genociding


From Temple St bridge..

https://i.imgur.com/VEPp735.mp4

[benji]

A lot of law enforcement people are not white. So yeah who are they Genociding

Internalized hatred and fascism, class traitors, collaborators willing to sell out their people in hopes they'll be spared and benefit, etc. etc. all proof that the genocide is real and we're in stage ten. Read a fucking book, learn the theory.

[benji]

[killamajig]

Also, my fun with waymo is over. Down Town LA is "not in this area yet"



Strange, it was in this area a few days ago 

[killamajig]

In this episode of "When keeping it real goes wrong"


 , that's a statement one hopes they never have to make.

[Polident]

He’s very careful to let you know he wasn’t a virgin loser in High School.

[HaughtyFrank]

[benji]

"rightwingers are the only ones who spend time virtue signalling and cancelling"

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

 

[benji]

https://x.com/thecaptain_nemo/status/1932555034858078592

[HaughtyFrank]

The whole Thunberg saga seems quite stupid

Just yesterday they claimed she was kidnapped despite being instantly released and now the problem is that she wasn't released the right way.

Edit: oh for fucks sake this is the woman from the majority report podcast