Journal of Other Forum Analysis (Volume II, Issue 2)

[Polident]

I searched for something, clicked on a reddit thread result, then clicked on a thread over on the related threads list and found this discussion in the replies:

TheMust4rdGuy
OP
•
5mo ago
Thank you for that concise recap of DC"s crisis event history, though I am familiar with it. I do feel though, even after reading your explanation among the others, that Luthor's line there was extremely poorly put. It makes very little sense when taken at face value and the reference given by the editor doesn't help in the slightest for confused readers. I've even seen some people (like Comic Curator on YT) claiming that Luthor's statement proves that the Omniverse never existed and was actually a false creation made by Darkseid!

Flashpoint Beyond #5 did help clarify things going forward though, much like The New History of the DC Universe is doing now.
Thanks for your help!

EDanielGarnica
•
5mo ago
"Comic Curator" is 100% sure that Perpetua was created by Darkseid.

I read the runs that he claims that no one ever read, and there's not even a hint of that. His statements are usually wrong, dude.

TheMightOfGeburah
•
5mo ago
Comic Curator thinks that Buuhan is stronger than Kid Buu despite the many materials saying otherwise.

LilithLamm
•
4mo ago
Buuhan is absolutely stronger than kid buu.

TheMightOfGeburah
•
4mo ago
So you have a statement that says “Buuhan is the strongest Buu” in the time when Kid Buu was conceptualized? Because I have multiple statements for the other way around. Kid Buu is the stronger Buu, his introduction started with the Supreme Kai saying the Absorptions were weaker than him.

LilithLamm
•
4mo ago
The original manga, in the original Japanese, stated kid buu was the most dangerous because he was completely feral. It was impossible to reason with him. Majin Fat Buu was somewhat able to be reasoned with, as exhibited by its willingness to listen to Babidi. Super Buu was convinced by Piccolo to wait until Trunks and Goten could fuse again. And Buuhan had Piccolo's and Gohan's intelligence, which is why he was the most competent fighter out of all the Buus, and the most verbose.

Kid Buu from the jump started destroying the planet, which no other villain up to that point had done. Said villains capable of destroying a planet also had a functioning, rational mind. Imagine if Frieza acted like Kid Buu, then there's be no time for Goku to Zenkai to get Super Saiyan. Imagine if Perfect Cell were feral, then he would never have tortured the Z warriors to get Gohan angry enough to transform to SS2. All the big bads would have been 10x worse if they weren't proud enough to allow the Z warriors to eventually get the upper hand.

Also, the most obvious example is the fact that Super Saiyan 3 Goku was fighting evenly with Kid Buu and only lost because he no longer had the benefit of being dead to counteract SS3's massive energy drain. That same Goku was completely outclassed by regular Super Buu and thought the only chance to defeat him was either with Gotenks or Ultimate Gohan. Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta was able to hold Kid Buu off, which was not something he was willing to consider for Super Buu.

Just because Kid Buu was the last bad guy, that doesn't mean he's the strongest.

TheMightOfGeburah
•
3mo ago
You’re parrotting the same tired, debunked misconceptions that the western fandom has been clinging to for decades because they refuse to read the source material. You claim the "original Japanese" supports you? That is laughable. I’m going to do what you clearly haven’t: I’m going to actually read the Japanese text on the page to you.

You claim Kid Buu is only "dangerous" because he’s feral. You claim he isn't the strongest. You are objectively wrong, and I have the Supreme Kai’s own words to prove it.

Let’s look at Dragon Ball Volume 34, Chapter 508 (The Original Manga). Look at the bottom panels of the scan I posted.

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol34/064-aG25E.jpg

Panel Context: Kibito Kai is explaining exactly what happened to Buu’s physiology after they ripped "Good Buu" (Fat Buu) out of Super Buu.

The Japanese Text (Bottom Middle Panel):

Kibito Kai:「……はい…吸収によってパワーを減らしてまで手に入れた心が…またもとにもどってしまった……」

The Direct Translation:

*“…Yes… the heart which he obtained **by going so far as to reduce his power through absorption**… has returned to its original state again…”*

Did you catch that? Or do you need me to spell it out?

*“Power wo herashite”* (パワーを減らして) means **"REDUCING POWER."**

The Supreme Kai explicitly states that by absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai (Dai Kaioshin)—the act that created Fat Buu—Buu actually **lost power** in exchange for gaining a "heart" (control/reason). Your entire argument hinges on the idea that Absorptions = Stronger. The manga explicitly refutes this. The "Buff Buu" (South Supreme Kai absorption) was strong, and stated to have a higher Ki than Super Buu (the first sign that the whole "absorption = stronger" thing was false and another sign that the reduction of absorptions wasn't making Buu weaker but stronger)

When Kid Buu appears, Old Kai (Bottom Right Panel) says:

「…いまの…あのちいさな魔人ブウは…最初…いちばんやっかいなヤツじゃと……」

*“…This… that small Majin Buu now is… the initial… the most troublesome one…”*

He isn't just "troublesome" because he's loud or feral. He is troublesome because the "*restraint*" on his power—the "heart" that reduced his power—is gone.

Kid Buu is stated in the Dragon Ball Z Fact File to be the Buu with the most power

https://preview.redd.it/people-have-to-realize-that-there-are-statements-for-both-v0-dmlu6f82oj4e1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=92fb5348c5c617a29a37f00a8fe154187058e8d7

https://i.redd.it/kid-buu-buuhan-using-only-anime-and-databooks-v0-78oz7rhsggac1.jpg?width=762&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbd2e586c079f039b237aebde575e0b1cb836f51

He's stated to have the greatest of strength in Dragon Book Z Volume 7

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/c37ffa7f-3b8e-451f-8986-88710621a6c6/scale-to-width/755

Buuhan is SUB RELATIVE to SS3 Goku according to VJumps

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/f/f6/Ebe0c681127bb62-a-nw-p.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/400?cb=20181231082722

Dende states the Evil Version Of Majin Buu (that's what Kid Buu is called in Japan) aka the Majin Buu Of Pure Evil was Goku's most forimidable foe

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-W_2AZWUAAB7ZS.png

Addressing your points specifically:

"Kid Buu was only dangerous because he was feral":

False. As proven above, the absorption of the Grand Supreme Kai *reduced his power*. Therefore, reverting to Kid Buu removed that dampener. He is dangerous because he is pure, unadulterated power without the inhibition that made the other Buus weaker/gentler.

2. "Goku was terrified of Super Buu but fought Kid Buu":

Context implies everything. Inside Buu’s body, Goku was at his smaller size which guides confirm reduced his and Vegeta's powers to 1/100th less than normal, lacking the leverage to fight. Furthermore, when fighting Kid Buu, Goku explicitly states he overestimated his own ability to maintain SSJ3 in a living body. He thought he could one-shot Kid Buu if he gathered his ki for one minute something he never claimed he couldn't do against Buuhan, in fact, the guides place Buuhan ON Goku's level at max. The narrative point stands: Kid Buu pushed a 100% SSJ3 Goku to the absolute brink of stamina failure, something no other form did because the fight dynamics were different.

3. "Vegeta held off Kid Buu":

Vegeta was used as a punching bag. That is not a feat of strength; it is a feat of durability and Kid Buu toying with his food. Kid Buu plays around; that is his nature. Using Vegeta getting thrashed as evidence that Kid Buu is weak is the definition of poor media literacy.

4. "Buuhan was the most competent":

Competence alone does not equal raw destructive ceiling, we also see in Dragon Ball Super that HAVING CONTROL OF YOUR KI actually increases your power, we see Kid Buu utilize his body and Ki in ways Super Buu can't even do. You are confusing "tactical ability" with "power." Buuhan relied on techniques and intellect. Kid Buu relies on infinite stamina, instant regeneration, and a power level that was *restrained* by previous absorptions.

Stop relying on headcanon and "what if" scenarios about Frieza. Read the text.

Absorption = Power Reduction

Kid Buu = The restraints removed

The scan doesn't lie. Your memory of the series does.

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

If era was more this type of nerd shit it’d be palatable.

[HeavenIsAPlaceOnEarth]

The courts were never going to save us from this evil. But we will survive this.

I hope not.

[HeavenIsAPlaceOnEarth]

Cis people are constantly experiencing gender euphoria as they go about their day. Endless pleasure from being the gender that they identify as. Maybe don't deny basic science.

Cis people constantly leave a slug trail behind them due to all the endless pleasure.

[HeavenIsAPlaceOnEarth]

Gender euphoria is what I’ll feel when someone actually finally posts hog on here

To receive hog, you must first provide hog.

[Greatness Gone]

Hate this little fucker so much. 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/dinkydev-appreciation-thread.1461850/

[benji]

Cis people constantly leave a slug trail behind them due to all the endless pleasure.

You’re parrotting the same tired, debunked misconceptions that the western fandom has been clinging to for decades because they refuse to read the source material. You claim the "original Japanese" supports you? That is laughable.

[HeavenIsAPlaceOnEarth]

I searched for something, clicked on a reddit thread result, then clicked on a thread over on the related threads list and found this discussion in the replies:

TheMust4rdGuy
OP
•
5mo ago
Thank you for that concise recap of DC"s crisis event history, though I am familiar with it. I do feel though, even after reading your explanation among the others, that Luthor's line there was extremely poorly put. It makes very little sense when taken at face value and the reference given by the editor doesn't help in the slightest for confused readers. I've even seen some people (like Comic Curator on YT) claiming that Luthor's statement proves that the Omniverse never existed and was actually a false creation made by Darkseid!

Flashpoint Beyond #5 did help clarify things going forward though, much like The New History of the DC Universe is doing now.
Thanks for your help!

EDanielGarnica
•
5mo ago
"Comic Curator" is 100% sure that Perpetua was created by Darkseid.

I read the runs that he claims that no one ever read, and there's not even a hint of that. His statements are usually wrong, dude.

TheMightOfGeburah
•
5mo ago
Comic Curator thinks that Buuhan is stronger than Kid Buu despite the many materials saying otherwise.

LilithLamm
•
4mo ago
Buuhan is absolutely stronger than kid buu.

TheMightOfGeburah
•
4mo ago
So you have a statement that says “Buuhan is the strongest Buu” in the time when Kid Buu was conceptualized? Because I have multiple statements for the other way around. Kid Buu is the stronger Buu, his introduction started with the Supreme Kai saying the Absorptions were weaker than him.

LilithLamm
•
4mo ago
The original manga, in the original Japanese, stated kid buu was the most dangerous because he was completely feral. It was impossible to reason with him. Majin Fat Buu was somewhat able to be reasoned with, as exhibited by its willingness to listen to Babidi. Super Buu was convinced by Piccolo to wait until Trunks and Goten could fuse again. And Buuhan had Piccolo's and Gohan's intelligence, which is why he was the most competent fighter out of all the Buus, and the most verbose.

Kid Buu from the jump started destroying the planet, which no other villain up to that point had done. Said villains capable of destroying a planet also had a functioning, rational mind. Imagine if Frieza acted like Kid Buu, then there's be no time for Goku to Zenkai to get Super Saiyan. Imagine if Perfect Cell were feral, then he would never have tortured the Z warriors to get Gohan angry enough to transform to SS2. All the big bads would have been 10x worse if they weren't proud enough to allow the Z warriors to eventually get the upper hand.

Also, the most obvious example is the fact that Super Saiyan 3 Goku was fighting evenly with Kid Buu and only lost because he no longer had the benefit of being dead to counteract SS3's massive energy drain. That same Goku was completely outclassed by regular Super Buu and thought the only chance to defeat him was either with Gotenks or Ultimate Gohan. Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta was able to hold Kid Buu off, which was not something he was willing to consider for Super Buu.

Just because Kid Buu was the last bad guy, that doesn't mean he's the strongest.

TheMightOfGeburah
•
3mo ago
You’re parrotting the same tired, debunked misconceptions that the western fandom has been clinging to for decades because they refuse to read the source material. You claim the "original Japanese" supports you? That is laughable. I’m going to do what you clearly haven’t: I’m going to actually read the Japanese text on the page to you.

You claim Kid Buu is only "dangerous" because he’s feral. You claim he isn't the strongest. You are objectively wrong, and I have the Supreme Kai’s own words to prove it.

Let’s look at Dragon Ball Volume 34, Chapter 508 (The Original Manga). Look at the bottom panels of the scan I posted.

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol34/064-aG25E.jpg

Panel Context: Kibito Kai is explaining exactly what happened to Buu’s physiology after they ripped "Good Buu" (Fat Buu) out of Super Buu.

The Japanese Text (Bottom Middle Panel):

Kibito Kai:「……はい…吸収によってパワーを減らしてまで手に入れた心が…またもとにもどってしまった……」

The Direct Translation:

*“…Yes… the heart which he obtained **by going so far as to reduce his power through absorption**… has returned to its original state again…”*

Did you catch that? Or do you need me to spell it out?

*“Power wo herashite”* (パワーを減らして) means **"REDUCING POWER."**

The Supreme Kai explicitly states that by absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai (Dai Kaioshin)—the act that created Fat Buu—Buu actually **lost power** in exchange for gaining a "heart" (control/reason). Your entire argument hinges on the idea that Absorptions = Stronger. The manga explicitly refutes this. The "Buff Buu" (South Supreme Kai absorption) was strong, and stated to have a higher Ki than Super Buu (the first sign that the whole "absorption = stronger" thing was false and another sign that the reduction of absorptions wasn't making Buu weaker but stronger)

When Kid Buu appears, Old Kai (Bottom Right Panel) says:

「…いまの…あのちいさな魔人ブウは…最初…いちばんやっかいなヤツじゃと……」

*“…This… that small Majin Buu now is… the initial… the most troublesome one…”*

He isn't just "troublesome" because he's loud or feral. He is troublesome because the "*restraint*" on his power—the "heart" that reduced his power—is gone.

Kid Buu is stated in the Dragon Ball Z Fact File to be the Buu with the most power

https://preview.redd.it/people-have-to-realize-that-there-are-statements-for-both-v0-dmlu6f82oj4e1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=92fb5348c5c617a29a37f00a8fe154187058e8d7

https://i.redd.it/kid-buu-buuhan-using-only-anime-and-databooks-v0-78oz7rhsggac1.jpg?width=762&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbd2e586c079f039b237aebde575e0b1cb836f51

He's stated to have the greatest of strength in Dragon Book Z Volume 7

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/c37ffa7f-3b8e-451f-8986-88710621a6c6/scale-to-width/755

Buuhan is SUB RELATIVE to SS3 Goku according to VJumps

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/f/f6/Ebe0c681127bb62-a-nw-p.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/400?cb=20181231082722

Dende states the Evil Version Of Majin Buu (that's what Kid Buu is called in Japan) aka the Majin Buu Of Pure Evil was Goku's most forimidable foe

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-W_2AZWUAAB7ZS.png

Addressing your points specifically:

"Kid Buu was only dangerous because he was feral":

False. As proven above, the absorption of the Grand Supreme Kai *reduced his power*. Therefore, reverting to Kid Buu removed that dampener. He is dangerous because he is pure, unadulterated power without the inhibition that made the other Buus weaker/gentler.

2. "Goku was terrified of Super Buu but fought Kid Buu":

Context implies everything. Inside Buu’s body, Goku was at his smaller size which guides confirm reduced his and Vegeta's powers to 1/100th less than normal, lacking the leverage to fight. Furthermore, when fighting Kid Buu, Goku explicitly states he overestimated his own ability to maintain SSJ3 in a living body. He thought he could one-shot Kid Buu if he gathered his ki for one minute something he never claimed he couldn't do against Buuhan, in fact, the guides place Buuhan ON Goku's level at max. The narrative point stands: Kid Buu pushed a 100% SSJ3 Goku to the absolute brink of stamina failure, something no other form did because the fight dynamics were different.

3. "Vegeta held off Kid Buu":

Vegeta was used as a punching bag. That is not a feat of strength; it is a feat of durability and Kid Buu toying with his food. Kid Buu plays around; that is his nature. Using Vegeta getting thrashed as evidence that Kid Buu is weak is the definition of poor media literacy.

4. "Buuhan was the most competent":

Competence alone does not equal raw destructive ceiling, we also see in Dragon Ball Super that HAVING CONTROL OF YOUR KI actually increases your power, we see Kid Buu utilize his body and Ki in ways Super Buu can't even do. You are confusing "tactical ability" with "power." Buuhan relied on techniques and intellect. Kid Buu relies on infinite stamina, instant regeneration, and a power level that was *restrained* by previous absorptions.

Stop relying on headcanon and "what if" scenarios about Frieza. Read the text.

Absorption = Power Reduction

Kid Buu = The restraints removed

The scan doesn't lie. Your memory of the series does.

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

cum

[HeavenIsAPlaceOnEarth]

Cis people constantly leave a slug trail behind them due to all the endless pleasure.

You’re parrotting the same tired, debunked misconceptions that the western fandom has been clinging to for decades because they refuse to read the source material. You claim the "original Japanese" supports you? That is laughable.