Kulturkampf

[HaughtyFrank]

[Ribosome]

That Joey guy that gets posted here is threatening to sue a shitposting account for defamation lol.

[Polident]

tbh the ladies wearing perfume at the gym is always curious. The only guys I catch wearing cologne are, coincidentally, also working off the 2.5 to 10kg dumbbells rack.

[benji]

They always have so much energy to attack someone who is 99% aligned wit them

People still care about jews killing palestinians, while the trump admin is rounding up brown people, hiding pedo files, funneling money to billionaires, and redirecting money to the KKK in fly over country?

Because everything is about proving yourself more radical and extreme than everyone else in the local social group, not to actually build a political coalition that can win elections. They build social cachet for themselves by attacking AOC or anyone else as a sell out. They literally do not care if this is a ratchet that reduces them to 1% or less of the population. Look at Nepenthe constantly yelling at fellow extremists that a successful political party needs to throw out all its positions for those supported by less than 1% of the population, she doesn't even attempt to make an argument for how this will win votes, that's compromising yourself, it's about being correct, creating utopia and then maybe sometimes some shit about how this is the real views of everyone if they were educated enough. It's not a leftie thing, the Libertarian Party is entirely held hostage by a base that doesn't want it to compromise and so it's most successful elections are seen as mistakes when the party sold out.

They don't care if AOC loses political power, what they want is her (and others) to bend the knee to them. I imagine when you spend all your time telling yourself that you personally represent the Right Side of History you don't really care about winning elections, History is your judge, not the other 99% of the population. Besides, you know what's best for them anyway.

[benji]

"avarage"

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

Since I didn't see it in the immediate replies, although one person was skeptical enough to get close to asking the right questions, this can't be correct because IQ scores are adjusted so 100 is average based on a number of demographic factors including culture, etc. Liberia might be lower on average than neighboring countries with similar demographics but the average would still be near 100. There's definitely no "African" score that would let you see 30+ points of difference between Liberia, South Africa and Egypt for example. Even if there was, the continent's average would be 100, it's not possible for every single country to be that far below it if the continent average is 100. This isn't how averages work.

Obsessing about IQ scores continues to be a great predictor for finding very stupid people.

[Uncle]

wouldn't the wording of the statement mean that "when taking a US standard IQ test and ranked compared to US scores, Liberians would score 45"

but then the question is, who is performing these tests in a way that's US-based but also localized in a way any Liberian could read or understand it

is this data from "take free IQ test dot com" which just gives you a score ranked against everyone else who used the site

also the rest of the statements like "most of them can't cook food or count beyond 5 or 10" would be rooted in fact or fiction and be pretty easy to prove false



apparently grok thinks this specific number is from a particular person's (flawed) research

[benji]

Well, I'd tell you right off the bat that statement is clearly false because a population average at 45 is implausible. 70 is about the lowest mathematically because of how IQ's distribution is done. 100 - 2 stdevs (of 15) = 70. That's why 130 is the other end of the typical IQ tail.

I actually doubt you could get a 45 IQ if you tested ancient Greeks with a modern US test assuming away the translation issues. The idea that there's an entire country that stupid? And nearly an entire continent? Incredibly implausible.

If they said 85 it'd be a claim that would actually take work to dismiss. It's probably still false, but you'd have to actually pull up some data to disprove it. I'm skeptical any population of millions could score that low but it's plausible enough.

edit: Oh, Richard Lynn.  He's a self-proclaimed white supremacist and racist, ran his own psuedoscientific journal, etc.

[benji]

Central to the book's thesis is a tabulation of what Lynn and Vanhanen believe to be the average IQs of the world's nations. Rather than do their own IQ studies, the authors average and adjust existing studies and use other methods to create estimates.

For 104 of the 185 nations, no studies were available. In those cases, the authors have used an estimated value by taking averages of the IQs of neighboring or comparable nations. For example, the authors arrived at a figure of 84 for El Salvador by averaging their calculations of 79 for Guatemala and 88 for Colombia.

...

"For instance, Lynn and Vanhanen (2006) accorded a national IQ of 69 to Nigeria on the basis of three samples (Fahrmeier, 1975; Ferron, 1965; Wober, 1969), but they did not consider other relevant published studies that indicated that average IQ in Nigeria is considerably higher than 70 (Maqsud, 1980a, b; Nenty & Dinero, 1981; Okunrotifa, 1976).

...

Wicherts and colleagues in yet another reply stated: "In light of all the available IQ data of over 37,000 African testtakers, only the use of unsystematic methods to exclude the vast majority of data could result in a mean IQ close to 70. On the basis of sound methods, the average IQ remains close to 80.

...

Some criticisms have focused on the limited number of studies upon which the book is based. The IQ figures are based on 3 different studies for 17 nations, two studies for 30 nations, and one study for 34 nations. There were actual tests for IQ in the case of 81 countries out of the 185 countries studied. For 104 nations there were no IQ studies at all and IQ was estimated based on the average IQ of surrounding nations.[2] The limited number of participants in some studies as well as outdated data has also been criticized. A test of 108 9- to 15-year-olds in Barbados, of 50 13- to 16-year-olds in Colombia, of 104 5- to 17-year-olds in Ecuador, of 129 6- to 12-year-olds in Egypt, and of 48 10- to 14-year-olds in Equatorial Guinea, all were taken as measures of national IQ.[3] 

edit:

The majority of the data points were based upon convenience rather than representative samples. Some points were not even based on residents of the country. For instance, the "data point" for Suriname was based on tests given to Surinamese who had migrated to the Netherlands, and the "data point" for Ethiopia was based on the IQ scores of a highly selected group that had emigrated to Israel and, for cultural and historical reasons, was hardly representative of the Ethiopian population. The data point for Mexico was based upon a weighted averaging of the results of a study of "Native American and Mestizo children in southern Mexico" with result of a study of residents of Argentina. Upon reading the original reference, we found that the "data point" that Lynn and Vanhanen used for the lowest IQ estimate, Equatorial Guinea, was actually the mean IQ of a group of Spanish children in a home for the developmentally disabled in Spain.

...

A more egregious example is provided by his treatment of the Eyferth (1961) study of two groups of illegitimate children fathered by (mostly) American black and white servicemen and brought up by their (carefully matched) German mothers. Eyferth reported an average IQ of 96.5 for the mixed race children and of 97.2 for the whites. Lynn reduces the former number to 94 to compensate for use of an old test, and compares it, not with the score of the white sample, but with an average IQ of 100 for German children. He is thus able to conclude that the IQ of these mixed race children is half way between that of Americans and Africans. He derives the same conclusion from the Weinberg, Scarr, and Waldman (1992) transracial adoption study since, at the 10-year follow-up, the mixed race children had an average IQ of 94, mid-way between the 102 of the white children and the 89 of the black children. He omits to mention one of the more salient features of this follow-up, namely, that there had been substantial attrition in the white sample—with a loss of those children with lower IQ scores, resulting in an overestimate of the white group's IQ by some 6 points.

Much labour has gone into this book. But I fear it is the sort of book that gives IQ testing a bad name.

[DavidCroquet]

racism i get. what’s the beef with specifically liberia tho?

[benji]

racism i get. what’s the beef with specifically liberia tho?

Was founded by American slaves and free Blacks.

[Uncle]

keeping in mind I don't know anything about IQ tests and you seem to know:

Well, I'd tell you right off the bat that statement is clearly false because a population average at 45 is implausible. 70 is about the lowest mathematically because of how IQ's distribution is done. 100 - 2 stdevs (of 15) = 70. That's why 130 is the other end of the typical IQ tail.

is this just because whatever the lowest scorer is, their theoretical ranking puts them at 70 and then everyone else is adjusted upward?

I can still imagine that there would be a way to logic yourself into considering someone lower than that, even if numerically it would be meaningless based on what IQ is supposed to measure

like if it's 200 questions and the average of even the dumbest people get 50 of them right, so they're considered 70, then it would make sense to consider people who only got 30 right to be lower than that, before the scale is adjusted to make them the new minimum

what if someone got none of them right? just demonstrated no ability to complete even the most basic parts of it? it doesn't make sense to say that someone who is medically brain dead has an IQ of 70, apparently just as smart as a number of others in the population, just because that's what we call the floor

[Cauliflower Of Love]

iq tests

[Cauliflower Of Love]

more like 

i dumb tests

[Cauliflower Of Love]

im not saying im dumb im saying

[Cauliflower Of Love]

shut up

[benji]

No, because IQ is automatically set so the mean is 100 and the probabilistic distribution moves down in standard deviations of 15. 70 isn't the floor, it's just where the lowest tail is guaranteed to be and everything beyond it will be outliers like people who have down syndrome or are brain dead.

An individual scoring as an outlier isn't weird, an average of a population doing so is. Especially if we're scoring an average against another average. They're saying that if you take an adult American who hasn't advanced past 1st Grade they would crush 75% of Liberia by nearly two more standard deviations. It's mathematically implausible even if we can fathom it for an individual. Hence why the original tweet tries to claim that the majority of Liberians can't even cook their own food, count beyond five or understand metaphors. It's an absurd claim.

A Liberian average of 45 means that the smartest Liberians are almost two standard deviations below the average American because the Liberian high tail would be 75IQ American. They're arguing that the two populations at the five points look like this on the same scale:
70 - 85 - 100 - 115 - 130
15 - 30 - 45 -  60 -    75
It's a bell curve distribution so the five points aren't equal fifths of the population, the population instead decreases away from the mean. So almost the entire population of Liberia would be stupider than the stupidest Americans, stupider than the average American six year old, etc. An IQ survey probably has never shown this for any representative population without some kind of disorder.

[nachobro]

more like 

i dumb tests

lol u dumb

[Alpacx]

What could go wrong?

Edit

[benji]

You know who else made minority religions wear a badge.

[Potato]

We should all thank Hogan for killing Gawker

[Uncle]

[nachobro]

children and schools not actually mentioned at all in the article, workplaces are mentioned though  

[HaughtyFrank]

Edit

Always funny how they died on the hill of publishing a sex tape and think they're the victims

[benji]

Always funny how they died on the hill of publishing a sex tape and think they're the victims

[Uncle]

I always sit ramrod straight

[Ethan]

Civil war in the Montreal pride scene

New community-led Pride festival in Montreal hopes to reclaim celebration 

A group of Montrealers is launching a new Pride festival this summer, aiming to reclaim the spirit of celebration and resistance they say has been lost in corporate-led events by Fierté Montréal.

Wild Pride is set to run for three weeks starting July 31, with programming that includes workshops, performances, family-friendly gatherings and dance parties.

But organizers say the event is about more than fun — it’s a response to deep frustration from community members who say they’ve been excluded, ignored or tokenized by existing institutions.

“It’s a grassroots and community-based alternative to Fierté,” said Yara Coussa, one of Wild Pride’s co-organizers. “It’s here to give space to people who don’t feel like Fierté Montréal has been there for them — or represented them in any shape or form.”

The festival is being organized by a collective led by queer, Black, Indigenous, and People of Colour (BIPOC), Southwest Asian and North African (SWANA), disabled and neurodivergent volunteers. Coussa said that diversity is reflected not just in who is planning the event, but in how it’s being structured.

“We’re intentionally spreading things out over three weeks to make it accessible,” they explained. “Most festivals are jam-packed with events every single day and that format doesn’t work for people with lower energy, mobility issues, or who need recovery time.”

Some activities will be mask-mandatory and COVID-safe. While the majority of events will offer free entry, those that don’t will include sliding-scale pricing, with discounts for BIPOC and disabled attendees. Organizers also plan to distribute free transit passes at events and provide some designated drivers to get people home safely after late-night parties.

Coussa said the hope is to make sure cost isn’t a barrier. “We want to make this as accessible as possible,” they said. “We’re not trying to make a profit. This is about building community.”

The programming also includes concerts, drag story hour, poetry readings and sensory-friendly events. Some well-known musical guests are expected, though organizers are keeping names under wraps for now.

The creation of Wild Pride follows weeks of controversy surrounding Fierté Montréal. Nearly 20 community groups have publicly cut ties with the organization, accusing it of fostering a toxic culture and failing to respond to concerns around inclusion and politics.

“We’re fed up with our identities being used and tokenized by big corporations [partnering with Fierté],” Coussa said. “It all feels like virtue signalling, where these companies walk with us and think they’re absolved. Meanwhile, we’re not actually protected or heard.”

Zev Saltiel, a member of Independent Jewish Voices Montreal and part of Wild Pride, pointed to last year’s parade including the presence of pro-Israel groups. He’s among some activists who asked the organization to reconsider in light of the war in Gaza.

“We started conversations with Fierté about divesting from corporations complicit in the ongoing genocide,” Saltiel said. “We asked them to limit the display of Israeli flags.” They said this was in part to protect queer Palestinians grieving and feeling deeply hurt by the ongoing war.

Saltiel said the conversations with Fierté Montréal went nowhere—and that when the organization declined to cut ties with certain sponsors or acknowledge the war, it became clear to many that an alternative space was needed.

“Being anti-Zionist isn’t antisemitic and we were trying to help Fierté understand that, but it became clear that wasn’t going to happen, we knew we needed to do something different that actually reflects our community values.”

Organizers, who describe Wild Pride as firmly political, are planning on bringing these conversations to the forefront. A Shabbat is in the works for the festival.

Another event in the works is a private pool day for queer families, including those with trans parents or trans kids. Saltiel said the aim is to create an environment that feels unpoliced and safe.

“There’s so little space for us and it can be isolating. So having something intentional like this—it matters," Saltiel said.

At the heart of many complaints also made by 2SLGBTQ+ groups is what organizers describe as “pinkwashing” — corporate or institutional Pride messaging that masks or ignores harm.

“Wild Pride really aligns with this letting go of the pinkwashing and, instead, supporting all of our community members,” they added.

That sense of intention extended to an open community meeting held in mid-May, where anyone interested in shaping Wild Pride could share ideas. More than 120 people attended, Coussa said, and the first hour alone was devoted to people sharing painful experiences with Fierté Montréal.

“There was anger, absolutely,” they said. “But also hope.”

With about 40 volunteers already signed up and a small facilitation committee in place, organizers say they feel confident about the planning. Still, more volunteers are always welcome, and organizers are also seeking donations. Coussaid said funds will go toward accessibility measures, transit passes, and care resources.

“We were born out of frustration and desperation, yes,” they said. “But also out of the desire to build something joyful, political and inclusive. Pride was a riot and it should be political. It cannot be associated with banks and sponsors who don’t represent us.”

Coussa acknowledged that not everyone will relate to Wild Pride, and that’s fine. “If Fierté works for you, go. But for those of us who felt excluded, we deserve something, too.,” Coussa said.

They paused before adding: “It’s important to have another option. One where you don’t have to make a moral compromise just to feel seen.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/new-community-led-pride-festival-in-montreal-hopes-to-reclaim-celebration/

Article is a few weeks old, but I heard about this group for the first time this morning when their spokesperson was on TV saying they were organizing a decolonialist and anticapitalist competitor to the mainstream pride festival. Good luck!

[DavidCroquet]

Nothing says “Wild” like mandatory masking in 2025.

[HeavenIsAPlaceOnEarth]

I always sit ramrod straight

If sitting ramrod straight for more than four hours, please, see a doctor.

[benji]

[HaughtyFrank]

Are you okay UK?