Journal of Other Forum Analysis (Volume II, Issue 2)

[benji]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-are-conservatives-so-fragile.1300128/page-2#post-145357866

Well. I'm back. I said I could go on a long screed about the intersections of identity and insecurity and hierarchy, and I guess I did. I wasn't going to. The thread seemed like it died after the first day, and then it came back and I was just sort of emotionally wiped and didn't care enough. Something today made me do it.

This was long. I'm going to go play Skyrim for the rest of the night.

_______________________________________

Why are conservatives so fragile?

The lens through which they view the world and the values they hold create a structure in which their entire existence is extremely precarious. Always. It's inevitable because it's baked into how the fundamental scaffolding of their culture and thought patterns intersect with human instinct.

I'll start with a disclaimer that very little of what I'm going to explain here is unique to conservatives. Most of it applies to everyone in some way or other because a lot of what I'm about to go into is psychology and instinct. Where it becomes a bigger problem is where these things intersect with and reinforce each other--that is to say, conservative fragility is an emergent property, which is why conservatives tend to be reactionaries.

It's hard to even know where to start because the intersectionality of the causes is so thick.

I. IDENTITY

Identity is a massive determiner of human action; possibly even the biggest one. Small things like what take-out you get for dinner or how you react to an injury in the moment might be driven by immediate sensory input and circumstance, but the long term patterns, the overall shape of even the small things is influenced if not outright guided by one's sense of identity. Think statistics. The average or sum can reveal patterns that individual data points do not.

Many conservatives in the modern day, especially the more extreme ones, tend to hold simply "being conservative" as an important part of their identity. Often, conservative culture will deliberately raise people this way. It's an easy path--it provides a map for how to be a person, an in-group to which you can belong, an assigned "worth," and a pre-packaged set of "values," or at least what gets sold as values. This isn't to say conservatives don't have morals, it's to say that their self-declared values are deceptive. Sometimes wilfully, sometimes unintentionally. It depends on the individual, and being ignorant to your own motivations is hardly limited to the right wing, though I would hypothesize it's more common among them. We will come back to this later.

How many left-leaning individuals do you know that hold "being liberal/leftist" as a template for their identity? Not many, I'd wager. It may be an important part of who they are, but it's typically not a trait that gets individually listed off.

The difference here is one of assignment. The conservative identity is often assigned. Sometimes people intentionally choose it later in life, but typically it's given to people before they have any idea what it even means. In contrast, the leftist identity is more frequently emergent. It comes as a result of a person's values and interests. Which is why leftists don't use it as a core identity marker as often. It's a result, not a goal.

Note the complete opposites in cause and effect here:

Leftist identity: emergent result of chosen factors (typically, not exclusively)
Conservative identity: assigned identity with prescribed factors (typically, not exclusively)

The problem with a pre-packaged identity is that people do not come pre-packaged. Such an identity will almost never fit exactly perfectly. A mindful individual may reflect on their individual points of friction and choose to be different and think of themselves differently--but an indoctrinated identity gives little leeway to do that. The problem must be themselves not living up to the archetype they "should" be. Which leads to...

II. INSECURITY

Insecurity is an incredible driver of both human suffering and human motivation. If someone's maladaptive or sociopathic behaviour isn't a result of literal resource insecurity (food, etc), and it's not trauma, there's a decent chance insecurity is lurking in there somewhere.

Insecurity arises when one's identity and/or sense of worth does not have a solid foundation. A sense of self assigned or defined by others by definition has not been built from the ground up, and thus it balances precariously over a chasm. Even worse is when that sense of worth is controlled by other people. Can you think of anything so frightening as having no control whatsoever over your entire worth as a person? Not on the social level, which is horrifying in a different way (see: slavery, castes, and so forth), but on an internal level? If you were raised to believe or have otherwise internalized that being white, or male, or whatever-other-source-of-privilege is what makes you valuable and why you have more than others, your entire identity becomes predicated on an external societal structure over which you have zero control. The entire value of your identity becomes held up exclusively by piling "lessers" beneath it--quite literally completely dependent on others. You have no way to produce your own self-esteem and no idea of how to get there, which means the only way you can get it so you can feel worth anything is taking it out of the social esteem of your arbitrarily-prescribed "lessers." Maintaining the social value tiers that give you worth becomes imperative as you scramble for an external source of the control you internally lack. But it never works because it can't work. The only way to feel a sense of control over your life is to control yourself rather than trying to control others. And so the oppression and power struggles continue infinitely.

III. INEQUALITY

Inequality itself inherently does this to people. We are still animals at the end of the day, and we evolved with the kind of extreme sensitivity to status and perception of status that comes with being a highly social species.

By definition, having different levels of "status" means it's possible for your perceived value to change. Which makes it precarious. Rivals and "betters" are threats to your safety and to your access to resources. Likewise, you can destroy the status of others to comparatively raise your own. Energy and attention have to be constantly spent defending your position and keeping watch on those "above" you, because they have the power to destroy your own status with relatively little effort.

This insecurity and constant vigilance can be otherwise referred to as stress. Which is why every metric of societal well-being gets worse as inequality gets more extreme. Illness becomes more pervasive, crime goes up, life expectancy decreases, and so on. Yes, even for the people at the top. They are worse off too.

(Conversely, a narrower range or even lack of variation in power or status means there are no threats to one's status that need to be monitored. Pro-social behaviour becomes incentivized instead, as the only statuses are "other people like me so I get to participate" and getting ostracized for being disruptive).

IV. HIERARCHY

Left-leaning people are constantly misunderstanding how right-wingers work. They constantly point out the hypocrisy of the right as if it grants some sort of victory. It doesn't. Hypocrisy is only a failing to those who value equality. The right wing does not.

The actual, fundamental, underlying difference between left-wing and right-wing politics is valuing equality or equity versus valuing hierarchy.

Hierarchy is the foundational conservative value. The belief that some people are just better and deserve better is the whole, actual, entire point. "Fairness" in their eyes is not being treated equally, it's being treated as your hierarchically-defined worth deserves. However...

V. SOCIAL SIGNALLING

Outright saying "I am intrinsically better than you [by some conveniently unfalsifiable measure] and deserve better than you" just makes you an asshole. So it tends to be couched in other terms. "State's rights" (to do what?), "family values" (that give the father authoritarian control over the mother and children), and so on. The dominator-oriented authoritarians that espouse and lead the conversation around these "values" tend to know they are a smokescreen. They tend to have sociopathic tendencies and their only true goals are power and/or wealth. The follower-oriented authoritarians may actually, naively, believe these are what their politics stand for.

In both cases, proving one's value and deserving-ness to the group is a constant endeavour, lest you be excommunicated as one of those undeserving others. This incentivizes display over truth. Thus people jockey for more and more extreme ideals as a way to prove their "virtue" to the group. "That church thinks gay people should be accepted? Well clearly they don't believe hard enough! We're willing to go the extra mile and say outright that queer people are abominations unto God! We're more virtuous than them!" It becomes a virtue-signalling death spiral of needing to go farther and farther, lest you be accused of not being a "REAL" [demographic], falling out of favour, and becoming a prop for someone else's value--like all those other "lessers." There is no fate more terrifying to someone so thoroughly enmeshed in this authoritarian power struggle as to be deemed undeserving. Empathy for outsiders is vilified via a self-reinforcing loop.

It is telling that one of the quickest and most common about-turns people make upon leaving authoritarian religions is becoming supportive of LGBTQ+ rights.

VI. ABUSE

If you are familiar with the mechanisms of abuse, you may have noticed some patterns here. Controlling others by hamstringing their self-worth. Demanding conformity lest you be deemed one of those undeserving lessers. Incentivizing displays of devotion that determine your societal value. Conflating obedience with virtue. Violence and maladaptive behaviour that spreads out laterally due to being unable to retaliate against those "above."

Conservatives are fragile because the entire ideological structure is a lashing out against a lack of an internal locus of control. It is a maladaptive, abusive societal zeitgeist that incentivizes and perpetuates dehumanization rather than resilience, because it misrepresents strength as the ability to force rather than the ability to withstand. People who are happy and secure in their identity and self-worth do not seek to dominate others, because they most likely reflected, explored their identity, and built that worth themselves. It's internal, thus it cannot be taken away. It's not threatened by someone "lesser" because the entire concept of "lesser" doesn't make sense if you don't need to dominate others.

I have occasionally thought about just how much of human history was utterly suffuse with abuse. Slavery was extremely common throughout much of the world throughout most of history. Rulers doling out extreme and cruel punishments like the rack, crow cages, being broken on the wheel. Parents beating their children as "discipline." Women being dehumanized into "property" and functionally enslaved in all but name in many times and places. Children also being regarded as the "property" of their parents, particularly of the father, granting them less rights even than prisoners in many cases. Blood sports as "entertainment," such as bear-baiting.

Hurt people hurt people. Most of our history is continuous inherited cycles of hurt people hurting the next people. Surviving the wilderness is hard and sometimes horrible decisions have to be made. The next generation tries to invent ways to alleviate the material problems, but the psychological damage is harder to root out. Maybe that's part of why it's taken until now to even start to undo even a fraction of the damage.

Right-wing, hierarchical ways of thinking can only ever perpetuate that damage because abuse is baked into the very psychology of how hierarchy shapes people.

I think every person who comes to this side of the forum and posts in a politics thread should be required to read this post, this is cold hard motherfucking truth. I roll my eyes seeing people constantly misunderstand the right here, but I get it. I grew up with these kinds of people, I once believed the things they did and so the nature of the beast comes easy. I stopped when I was about 18 but only now in my 20s after thinking for many years did I come to these exact same conclusions. For me, it's the hierarchy worship that spooks me the most. Heck if I didn't already pick up on all of this I would shit bricks reading this post.

I like to view it as themselves becoming caricatures, if at least for a bit of levity.

Very illuminating read.

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Truly excellent post! I bookmarked it. I still don't 'get' the hierarchy stuff because it's so foreign to my thinking. It changes all the time so like, why play that game?

This is one of the best posts I've read on this site, just want to let you know. Nothing but truth.

Just wanted to say this was a great write up and appreciate you putting it out there.

Do you have history through job or school studying this?

Also:

Its not unintentional that they are fragile, we're talking about an ideology that was designed to appeal to disenfranchised, poor, uneducated, racist, and rural Americans.

 Conservatism was... designed? And for this?

[benji]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-are-conservatives-so-fragile.1300128/page-2#post-145357866

How many left-leaning individuals do you know that hold "being liberal/leftist" as a template for their identity? Not many, I'd wager. It may be an important part of who they are, but it's typically not a trait that gets individually listed off.

And I was actually going to read this shit.    

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

I can't believe the right is doing to us what we did to them. I thought they had honor. Stop being hypocrites!  = Internet leftist take.

The right and left, both our capitalistic oppressors, have been using these tactics on one another in an attempt to remove, little by little, our constitutional rights. = The true and real take  

but y'all aint ready to hear this

[Boredfrom]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-are-conservatives-so-fragile.1300128/page-2#post-145357866

How many left-leaning individuals do you know that hold "being liberal/leftist" as a template for their identity? Not many, I'd wager. It may be an important part of who they are, but it's typically not a trait that gets individually listed off.

And I was actually going to read this shit.    

This is one of the best posts I've read on this site, just want to let you know. Nothing but truth.

[Boredfrom]

Keep note of every name in that Disney+ cancel thread and cross reference it with the next Disney/Marvel OT. 

Edit: top page wlw

Man, Juri looks way better without the Rita Repulsa hairstyle.

[benji]

Im not shedding a tear over a him but also don't celebrate the unarmed execution of people, just like in general, we don't win by sinking to their level of hostility

Take a fucking look around. You're not winning anything. While fascists are actively rounding up everyone they can, you're clutching your pearls about the tone over some ratfuck who made it his business (and a very lucrative one) to be a megaphone for Nazi ideology. He's not "people", he's a front-facing tool operating at the behest of a fascist state.

Im not clutching pearls, I'm feeling extremely uncomfortable how many people around me are just ok with someone being murdered, and I also agree that the world is a better place without that guy. Also there's no reason to talk like that based on what I said, maybe it's a good time to log off

Charlie Kirk was not a "someone". He was a fascist that voluntarily traded in his humanity.

That thread also has yet another instance of the Right Side of History denying the humanity of others:

These "people" just don't really deserve empathy or tolerance because their intolerance is so toxic

[benji]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/abc-sacramento-affiliate-station-hit-by-gunshots-police-say.1303131/#post-145395690

jimmy kimmel is, as sad as it is, one of the bigger pushes that could get random middle of the road whites/liberals to turn to things like this

they can be very disconnected as long as he keeps it distant or abstract enough from impacting their lives, but directly and openly taking their tv away? hoo boy

Finally libs are getting of their asses, shooting tv stations

They'll shoot up a TV station for a rich white cishet male but when the NYT spends years pushing propaganda about genociding all trans people B-Dubs is all "it's a valid source, we can't ban it to keep trans members safe." As always, cis don't care and Era doesn't have enough trans people on staff. 

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

can't believe they allow a rag like that to be used in an OP..

[D3RANG3D]

Take a fucking look around. You're not winning anything. While fascists are actively rounding up everyone they can, you're clutching your pearls about the tone over some ratfuck who made it his business (and a very lucrative one) to be a megaphone for Nazi ideology. He's not "people", he's a front-facing tool operating at the behest of a fascist state.

Charlie Kirk was not a "someone". He was a fascist that voluntarily traded in his humanity.

That thread also has yet another instance of the Right Side of History denying the humanity of others:

These "people" just don't really deserve empathy or tolerance because their intolerance is so toxic

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

These "people" just don't really deserve empathy or tolerance because their intolerance is so toxic

Resetera says.

These "people" just don't really deserve empathy or tolerance because their intolerance is so toxic

Republicans reply.

Y'all are a perpetual cycle. You show the Republicans how low you can go and they meet you there.

[Taco Bell Tower]

Keep note of every name in that Disney+ cancel thread and cross reference it with the next Disney/Marvel OT. 

Edit: top page wlw

Echos is gonna join us now thanks to this.

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/sarah-mcbride-voted-yes-on-resolution-honoring-the-life-and-legacy-of-charlie-kirk.1302900/page-2#post-145391922

Surely you know about Sarah McBride's previous comments that disappointed many in the trans community, right?

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/what-sarah-mcbride-gets-wrong

This reply isn't really directed towards you, Alavard. Here's my filthy institutional liberal take on this — I'm a minority but I'm not part of the LGBTQ community. However, I feel like that doesn't mean dropping a line on these issues makes my take invalid. I've never disregarded the opinion of all the white dudes here that speak up for black folks while on their MacBooks sipping on their double espresso lattes at Starbucks. If you make a good point, you make a good point.

CHANGE is incremental. It's not overnight, it's not straight to 100 mph, it's a step-by-step process over an extended period of time. The fact that an openly trans member of congress exists in this climate is wild. She's not perfect, she doesn't align with every talking point on Erin Reed's substack or whatever, but she exists. With all of the insane issues we have going on right now, seeing a thread trying to specifically bury Sarah McBride of all people for not voting against this Kirk holiday thing is completely missing the point. After everything that's happened over the past year, how have we not learned that this isn't the way? It's not how politics works, it's not how LIFE works.

Wait, Embiid isn't LBGTQ and he's a straight cis?  NepNep, now is your chance to strike that cis man down with a permanent ban!

[Orange Juice Box]

Yep, the other side constantly does this.  Reminds me of the German Progaganda during WWII.

Animalistic metaphors: Portraying targeted groups as vermin, insects, or other dangerous or contemptible animals.

Denial of agency and emotion: Denying a group's capacity for complex thoughts, intentions, or feelings, which removes moral inhibitions against harming them.

Demonization: Presenting the opposition as a purely evil and monstrous force that is an existential threat to society.

Fabricated narratives and misinformation: Promoting biased stories and fake reports, including false atrocities, to incite fear and hatred.

But look at those at ape faced savages.  Would you expect them to do anything less?



Why can't they evolve?

[DavidCroquet]

Remember when they were all calling russians "orcs"? Such innocent, bygone days.

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/mcdonalds-newest-cartoons-has-introduced-new-characters-to-the-canon.1302993/

As every single member on this forum must be aware, McDonald's has recently come to recognize the cultural importance of their McDonaldLand characters, thanks almost entirely to my efforts to document their history.

Manchildren I swear 

[simiansmarts]

Keep note of every name in that Disney+ cancel thread and cross reference it with the next Disney/Marvel OT. 

Edit: top page wlw

Man, Juri looks way better without the Rita Repulsa hairstyle.

Erm... Juri's hair is actually based on Jolyne Cujoh, the protagonist of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 6: Stone Ocean

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

imagine Jolyne kissing Ermes 

what a wlw romance!

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/mcdonalds-newest-cartoons-has-introduced-new-characters-to-the-canon.1302993/

As every single member on this forum must be aware, McDonald's has recently come to recognize the cultural importance of their McDonaldLand characters, thanks almost entirely to my efforts to document their history.

Manchildren I swear 

they didn't even know that the Filet-O-Fish isn't a new character. What a fraud. 

[Nintex]

I wonder who has become more unhinged this year Gameboy Nostalgia or me

[Taco Bell Tower]

Messy thread
https://www.resetera.com/threads/online-piracys-great-comeback-as-the-enshittification-of-streaming-services-continues.1303203/

When streaming first started, it was convenient and cheap enough, reducing the need for piracy. However, as streaming subscription costs keep on rising, cost of living increases, password sharing is taken away, shows are deleted permanently and become lost media, geographic restrictions, worse customer service, enshittification keeps getting worse, content fragmentation, being worse than cable, needing multiple subscriptions, that online piracy would be increasing each year on year. Piracy services have way better UI now and the media there stays nearly forever. And as streaming executives continue to enhance their greed, continue to be awful companies morally, focus squarely on quarterly profits, at the expense of customer experience, it's more tempting to sail the seven seas.

Over Jimmy 

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

why is era moderation allowing the advocation of piracy? 

I wonder who has become more unhinged this year Gameboy Nostalgia or me

gaming during the trump era has changed the both of us for the better

[kaleidoscopium]

Embiid got some fun replies in the thread from the usual suspects 

Change is often incremental, yes, but it isn't the rate of change that's the issue, it's the direction of travel. Which continues to progress toward removing trans people from public life and has done for years. McBride holding her position may have, in and of itself, been of significance in a world trending toward greater acceptance and opportunity for trans people, but that isn't the world we live in anymore. We're currently seeing calls for trans advocacy and advocates to be regarded as terrorists. Access to healthcare – which, to be clear, is access to be ourselves in and of our own bodies – is being removed. Career paths are being stripped away along with access to basic public facilities.

Incremental change isn't putting your name in to pay respect to someone who believed trans people should be electroshocked or beaten out of existence. Let alone at a time where his state-mandated veneration is resulting in suppression of free speech and media, open calls for trans people to be taken 'off the streets', and witch hunts for people who so much as criticised him following his death.

I don't care if you're an institutional liberal or whatever. I do think it's shitty though to imply trans people taking issue with McBride don't understand how life works. When it's often as a result of experiencing how life works as a trans person that leads them to expect better from the one person in that role they have who can relate directly to their experience.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/sarah-mcbride-voted-yes-on-resolution-honoring-the-life-and-legacy-of-charlie-kirk.1302900/page-2#post-145397829

Not even a hint of self reflection  

More in the link from vonocunt, plagiarize, etc

[DavidCroquet]

Embiid got some fun replies in the thread from the usual suspects 

McBride holding her position may have, in and of itself, been of significance in a world trending toward greater acceptance and opportunity for trans people, but that isn't the world we live in anymore.

Wow, talk about girl math. Kyuuji is pretty good at this, no wonder She is Queen.

[Besticus Maximus]

Worth remembering that kyuuji is a rotund ginger fuzzface who puts even less effort into the larp than melody

[kaleidoscopium]

Israel is facing a growing global outcry, given that its war against Hamas in Gaza is causing many deaths, starvation and devastation.

Reuters can eat shit for this kind of framing.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/reuters-portugal-to-recognize-a-palestinian-state-government-says.1303074/#post-145393317

[Straight Edge]

I wonder who has become more unhinged this year Gameboy Nostalgia or me

No joke. I often get you 2 mixed up/

[Jansen]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2025/09/19/congressional-candidate-pushed-to-the-ground-by-ice-agent-during-protest-at-broadview-facilitiy

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

Era thread when?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/kat-abughazaleh-democratic-congressional-candidate-in-illinois-thrown-to-the-ground-by-ice-during-peaceful-protest.1302948/

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-do-people-follow-leaders-who-rolled-a-0-on-charisma-wisdom-and-intelligence-combined.1302306/page-2#post-145365858

Just going to say it and I don't mean to taunt the thread or upset the OP, I REALLY don't like the idea of defining real people based on D&D stats, in fact I find it very dehumanising and in many cases ableist (same as pointless as applying alignment on people, fictional and real)

Real people are multifaceted l, complex, contradictory and can vary wildly based on many factors, with broad personalities, you simply can't boil that down and apply an arbitrary  number to it. Intelligence really bothers me in this regard as we already in this thread have people basing Intelligence on IQ... You know the system that is well known to be outdated, doesn't actually determine intelligence and is deeply problematic (with along history of being used to justify racism, ableism and stuff in the US like forced strellization) and highly biased agaist people with physical disabilities and the neurodivergent (not that most people care).

Do Autistic people like deserve to be graded lower because of a test that is bias against us, regardless of our actual intelligence, abilities or skills? It's also just silly regardless, what is the best neurologist in the world not intelligent because they don't how to cook or random movie trivia? Is a Paleontologist deserving of a lower score because they aren't also an expert in meteorology? Also wisdom is part of intelligence, knowing a tin of stuff means nothing with the ability to use it, having them be separate stats makes no sense.

And to be blunt, people have off days, people make mistakes, even the smartest of us make rash choices, sometimes don't think or fall for scams and victims to ego and pride; that's being human and not something to be shamed. I dislike the smug superiority some have that assumes their immune to propaganda and rightwing rhetoric (you aren't) or that they are inherriantly more intelligent then others often based on arbitrary reasons.

I would hate to live in a world where humans were stated (and who gets to grade people? The government, AI, some biased group (going back to the IQ thing?), making it okay to block people from jobs, opinions treated as lesser etc. That seems like an even worse version of what we have today.

Plus in the context of fictional characters, it's also pointless because again, fictional character are complex.

[Snoopy]

Worth remembering that kyuuji is a rotund ginger fuzzface who puts even less effort into the larp than melody

To be fair High Femme's granny wig and glasses are much bigger than Shreds. Although Shreds has those weird DIY sock puppet tits now.

[clockwork5]

Worth remembering that kyuuji is a rotund ginger fuzzface who puts even less effort into the larp than melody

Also worth mentioning Kyuuji is an alcoholic, a benzodiazepine addict and an opioid addict.