Journal of Other Forum Analysis (Volume II, Issue 2)
Hap Shaughnessy dateline='[url=tel:1768503758' wrote: 1768503758[/url]']
https://www.resetera.com/threads/elliot-sang-black-folks-have-been-warning-us.1406437/#post-150094531 

Nepenthe wrote:I understand that feeling because that's just been the reality of being Black- I've had a cop pull up on me with their finger already on the trigger over a fucking broken taillight, years before people were aware of the concept of police harassment and brutality against Black people was a matter of policy. 🤷🏿‍♀️
 A lot of people are saying...
Nepenthe, a woman in her thirties, believes she was treated rudely by a police officer while driving before anybody was even aware of police brutality in the USA against black people. Given this, I genuinely believe she could not tell you who Rodney King was.
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(01-15-2026, 08:05 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/january-15-2026-trump-threatens-to-invoke-insurrection-act-in-response-to-anti-ice-protests-in-minnesota.1406818/page-6#post-150099049
Kschreck wrote:
PAFenix wrote:I started following one particular lawyer in the northeast a few years back and something that stuck with me during the 2020 elections was his statement that "You'd be surprised how many people just get up, go to work, come home and don't interact with anything outside of their routine."
My family won't let me even share the news what is going on. Instead they send me mental health information. My friends immediately shut me up as well if I try to tell them any of this news. Basically gave up.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/nyt-medicare-to-roll-out-pilot-program-that-uses-ai-to-deny-or-approve-certain-procedures.1284369/#post-144471489
Kschreck wrote:Every single time I try to mention any of this evil shit to anyone in my family, my friends, coworkers, etc, I immediately get shot down and told by everyone they don't want to hear about it. Shit sucks.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/gavin-newsom-ca-governor-warns-america-is-on-the-brink-of-martial-law.1317145/#post-146067949
Kschreck wrote:My entire family blocked me from talking about any of this. My friends yell at me and tell me they don't care and don't want to hear about it. Everyone at my work doesn't care or want to hear about it. Outside of these forums, I have tape over my mouth and I'm not allowed to mention the dictator in the room. I just want to wish everyone here the best of luck in the coming months. Really fucking sucks when nobody (outside of these forums) wants to even have a discussion about this shit let alone make plans to resist. I feel like just giving up entirely these days. :(
Dead
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(01-15-2026, 08:32 PM)Jansen wrote: His work history better be good or them payments will be peanuts
He only lists a single employer on LinkedIn: four years at PepsiCo in Texas over 2014-2019, four months of those as a college undergraduate intern.

(01-15-2026, 08:47 PM)Keetongu wrote:
Hap Shaughnessy dateline='[url=tel:1768503758' wrote: 1768503758[/url]']
https://www.resetera.com/threads/elliot-sang-black-folks-have-been-warning-us.1406437/#post-150094531 

Nepenthe wrote:I understand that feeling because that's just been the reality of being Black- I've had a cop pull up on me with their finger already on the trigger over a fucking broken taillight, years before people were aware of the concept of police harassment and brutality against Black people was a matter of policy. 🤷🏿‍♀️
 A lot of people are saying...
Nepenthe, a woman in her thirties, believes she was treated rudely by a police officer while driving before anybody was even aware of police brutality in the USA against black people. Given this, I genuinely believe she could not tell you who Rodney King was.
I also imagine by "finger on the trigger" she means hand on his gun still in the holster rather than pulled out pointing at her ready to fire.
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(01-15-2026, 08:59 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote:
(01-15-2026, 08:05 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/january-15-2026-trump-threatens-to-invoke-insurrection-act-in-response-to-anti-ice-protests-in-minnesota.1406818/page-6#post-150099049
Kschreck wrote:My family won't let me even share the news what is going on. Instead they send me mental health information. My friends immediately shut me up as well if I try to tell them any of this news. Basically gave up.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/nyt-medicare-to-roll-out-pilot-program-that-uses-ai-to-deny-or-approve-certain-procedures.1284369/#post-144471489
Kschreck wrote:Every single time I try to mention any of this evil shit to anyone in my family, my friends, coworkers, etc, I immediately get shot down and told by everyone they don't want to hear about it. Shit sucks.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/gavin-newsom-ca-governor-warns-america-is-on-the-brink-of-martial-law.1317145/#post-146067949
Kschreck wrote:My entire family blocked me from talking about any of this. My friends yell at me and tell me they don't care and don't want to hear about it. Everyone at my work doesn't care or want to hear about it. Outside of these forums, I have tape over my mouth and I'm not allowed to mention the dictator in the room. I just want to wish everyone here the best of luck in the coming months. Really fucking sucks when nobody (outside of these forums) wants to even have a discussion about this shit let alone make plans to resist. I feel like just giving up entirely these days. :(
He's one of the few people who is seeing the big picture too:
(09-29-2025, 10:41 PM)benji wrote:
Kschreck, https://www.resetera.com/threads/ea-announces-agreement-to-be-acquired-by-pif-silver-lake-and-affinity-partners-for-55-billion-kushner-saudi-arabia.1311322/page-22#post-145815229 wrote:Trump is slowly consuming all USA media companies (TV, film, videogames, etc) through the use of MAGA partners and other shady sources all while slowly making foreign made media more "out of reach":
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trumps-tariffs/article/us-to-impose-100-tariff-on-movies-made-outside-the-country/

I hope everyone here can see what is happening. Eventually everything in North America will be controlled by MAGA and anything not controlled by MAGA will be blocked via always increasing tariffs. Don't forget MAGA took over Twitter, TikTok, Paramount, and are now going for Warner Brothers as well.

I 100% expect most gaming companies to be blocked in North America (including Nintendo) in the not too distant future. Feel free to bookmark this post.
(10-24-2025, 02:14 AM)simiansmarts wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/warner-bros-discovery-puts-itself-up-for-sale-as-%E2%80%9Cmultiple-parties%E2%80%9D-circle.1330294/page-7#post-146780290 
Kschreck wrote:With MAGA quickly buying up all the media companies, my fear is:
1. All news will be owned by Trump/Allies and propaganda will be all that is left.
2. LGBTQ and "brown" people will no longer be represented in movies and TV shows (eventually). Content written and produced by MAGA. Anything considered "woke" to be removed.
3. Outside media (including videogames such as Sony and Nintendo) not produced here will be banned. Including internet websites. Got to keep us entirely controlled.

God I hope I am very wrong. This has all gotten so damn disturbing and so fast. :(

Don't want to live in a world where we go to the movies to watch Disney's The MAGA Avengers: Protectors of the Bible Realm or some nutty shit.
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/say-something-nice-about-another-member-on-gaming-side-2026-edition.1407487/

wlw?
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/will-the-2020s-be-regarded-as-one-of-the-worst-decades-in-recorded-history.1407496/

omfg
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(01-15-2026, 06:36 PM)Uncle wrote: there are only 50,000 people in greenland, why doesn't trump just do what muslims and indians are doing and send dedicated patriots to live there and become an overwhelming majority

how does their minuscule law enforcement plan on deporting 60,000 homesteaders

Is the ICE stuff is getting to you?
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(01-15-2026, 08:05 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/january-15-2026-trump-threatens-to-invoke-insurrection-act-in-response-to-anti-ice-protests-in-minnesota.1406818/page-6#post-150095263
Kschreck wrote:All this insanity and I go to work in a factory filled with people and can't find a single fucker that cares about any of this shit. Like people really won't budge on the caring part. My own family ranges from extreme MAGA to being a Democrat that "Don't ever want to talk about it". Not sure how the rest of you are fairing these days or what your communities look like but it's complete shit here in PA. As far as I can tell, the average people don't seem to have ANY clue at all what is going on. I gather most people don't really engage with the news all that often. People (at least here) just seem oblivious as to what is happening. It's WILD!!!

https://www.resetera.com/threads/january-15-2026-trump-threatens-to-invoke-insurrection-act-in-response-to-anti-ice-protests-in-minnesota.1406818/page-6#post-150099049
Kschreck wrote:
PAFenix wrote:I started following one particular lawyer in the northeast a few years back and something that stuck with me during the 2020 elections was his statement that "You'd be surprised how many people just get up, go to work, come home and don't interact with anything outside of their routine."
My family won't let me even share the news what is going on. Instead they send me mental health information. My friends immediately shut me up as well if I try to tell them any of this news. Basically gave up.
Dead

Priceless. 

I knew it was the dude with the Ax Cop avatar without even remembering his user name, just because how often whines about how nobody cares about him getting emotional and unstable about politics in public.
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/man-sam-raimis-spiderman-2-aged-like-the-finest-of-wines.1407589/#post-150104002
TyraZaurus wrote:It loses points for repeating the "other voice in the antagonist's head compels them to evil" element from the first movie, and also perpetuating the "fear of the other" trope in general

I have friends who are systems and so I'm very sensitive to and not very fond of the use of storytelling elements like that

https://www.resetera.com/threads/man-sam-raimis-spiderman-2-aged-like-the-finest-of-wines.1407589/#post-150104428
TyraZaurus wrote:Also...I'm sorry, but Raimi's films are terrible with women, and nothing emphasizes this better than how MJ is portrayed.
Social Justice Warrior 2
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Been a minute since we heard about "systems"
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/gallup-more-americans-identify-as-liberal-than-ever-in-new-gallup-polling.1407334/

lol 

I love how liberal means different things to everyone there. I imagine liberal to most is “free trade and be able to say whatever I want without fearing from an elderly Orange clown or a danger hair half my age to sperg out.”
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/ottawa-begins-to-consider-the-possibility-of-a-quebec-referendum.1406083/#post-150050494
Shoot wrote:Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ottawa-begins-to-consider-the-possibility-of-a-quebec-referendum.1406083/page-2#post-150075901
Shoot wrote:
Patate wrote:And here I am living in Quebec, as a French Canadian, perfectly happy living within my country, Canada, alongside my fellow English Canadians, trying to better up our country, being remembered that hater fucks like you are living elsewhere in another province. Congratulations, you've successfully managed to hurt feelings!
Lol sorry. I'm just pissed about the anti Muslim laws that keep getting passed and don't see any consequences for it. I know there's some good people in Quebec but polling and election data makes me want to just carve out the place and be done with it. Ideally I would want Quebec to stay and not violate the human rights of it's people.
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(01-15-2026, 09:34 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/man-sam-raimis-spiderman-2-aged-like-the-finest-of-wines.1407589/#post-150104002
TyraZaurus wrote:It loses points for repeating the "other voice in the antagonist's head compels them to evil" element from the first movie, and also perpetuating the "fear of the other" trope in general

I have friends who are systems and so I'm very sensitive to and not very fond of the use of storytelling elements like that

https://www.resetera.com/threads/man-sam-raimis-spiderman-2-aged-like-the-finest-of-wines.1407589/#post-150104428
TyraZaurus wrote:Also...I'm sorry, but Raimi's films are terrible with women, and nothing emphasizes this better than how MJ is portrayed.
Social Justice Warrior 2

Let’s be real:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/dec/01/morgan-geyser-slender-man-wisconsin

Real people with severe schizophrenia probably need real help than bitching about spider man villains on the internet.

(If anything, Raimi made Osborne more sympathetic than the “Temu’s Lex Luthor” from the comics)
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(01-15-2026, 09:34 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/man-sam-raimis-spiderman-2-aged-like-the-finest-of-wines.1407589/#post-150104002
TyraZaurus wrote:It loses points for repeating the "other voice in the antagonist's head compels them to evil" element from the first movie, and also perpetuating the "fear of the other" trope in general

I have friends who are systems and so I'm very sensitive to and not very fond of the use of storytelling elements like that

https://www.resetera.com/threads/man-sam-raimis-spiderman-2-aged-like-the-finest-of-wines.1407589/#post-150104428
TyraZaurus wrote:Also...I'm sorry, but Raimi's films are terrible with women, and nothing emphasizes this better than how MJ is portrayed.
Social Justice Warrior 2

You skipped this Jeff Marvel factually incorrect post
Quote:rewatch spider-man 1 and 2 …then watch the current garbage that the MCU pukes out

and tell me it's nostalgia, it's not.
Jeff Marvel
Quote:No one is going to argue against Spider-Man 2 being one of the all-time great superhero movies but this is a weird take considering that the last two MCU movies were nothing close to garbage
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(01-15-2026, 09:11 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/will-the-2020s-be-regarded-as-one-of-the-worst-decades-in-recorded-history.1407496/
Quote:Things are pretty shitty right now, make no mistake. But in the totality of recorded history, looking at metrics of mortality, health, human rights, standards of living, this decade could probably be ranked as one of the 10 best. That it could possibly be one of the worst is an absolutely bonkers thing to even suggest.
Quote:These poll results are wild. Out of the 500+ decades in recorded history, the 2020s easily rank as one of the best -- certainly top 10 -- in terms of global human suffering (war, famine, disease, genocide, slavery, civil rights, etc.). And I am not defending the 2020s here -- humanity is just so fucking shitty that this awful decade is still one of the best on record.
Dismissing concerns. Banplz

edit:
Quote:
Quote:I think a lot of people are underestimating the actual death tolls of COVID, USAID being gutted and more. I agree there have been many many worse decades, but it's not an absurd question or even close
I'd say you're underestimating the death tolls of everything before antibiotics, vaccines, water sanitation, mass-produced fertilizer, etc.

Every single decade before the 1900s would be worse than the 2020s by almost any metric. It's just all a long time ago and much of it has been romanticized rather than having every ugly detail magnified by social media
This guy too.
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2012 wrote:Republicans are totally screwed in future elections.
2016 wrote:Republicans are totally screwed in future elections.
2020 wrote:Republicans are totally screwed in future elections.
2024 wrote:Republicans are totally screwed in future elections.
2026 wrote:Republicans are totally screwed in future elections.
Trumps
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(01-15-2026, 09:45 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ottawa-begins-to-consider-the-possibility-of-a-quebec-referendum.1406083/#post-150050494
Shoot wrote:Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ottawa-begins-to-consider-the-possibility-of-a-quebec-referendum.1406083/page-2#post-150075901
Shoot wrote:
Patate wrote:And here I am living in Quebec, as a French Canadian, perfectly happy living within my country, Canada, alongside my fellow English Canadians, trying to better up our country, being remembered that hater fucks like you are living elsewhere in another province. Congratulations, you've successfully managed to hurt feelings!
Lol sorry. I'm just pissed about the anti Muslim laws that keep getting passed and don't see any consequences for it. I know there's some good people in Quebec but polling and election data makes me want to just carve out the place and be done with it. Ideally I would want Quebec to stay and not violate the human rights of it's people.

There couldn't be a better endorsement than someone like Shoot thinking a law is islamophobic
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(01-15-2026, 09:45 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ottawa-begins-to-consider-the-possibility-of-a-quebec-referendum.1406083/#post-150050494
Shoot wrote:Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ottawa-begins-to-consider-the-possibility-of-a-quebec-referendum.1406083/page-2#post-150075901
Shoot wrote:
Patate wrote:And here I am living in Quebec, as a French Canadian, perfectly happy living within my country, Canada, alongside my fellow English Canadians, trying to better up our country, being remembered that hater fucks like you are living elsewhere in another province. Congratulations, you've successfully managed to hurt feelings!
Lol sorry. I'm just pissed about the anti Muslim laws that keep getting passed and don't see any consequences for it. I know there's some good people in Quebec but polling and election data makes me want to just carve out the place and be done with it. Ideally I would want Quebec to stay and not violate the human rights of it's people.

Shoot is a Canuck?!

And worse, a Quebec one? Mike 

That explains a lot.
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/ice-bemoans-that-being-covered-in-piss-isnt-peaceful.1406941/#post-150086266

Quote: Cop User Banned (2 Week): Ableist Slur
R0987 wrote:Neither is getting kidnapped or shot at you fucktards.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1w9qe7n984o wrote:The Canadian province of Quebec plans to impose restrictions on public prayer and limit the exclusive offering of religion-based menus, like kosher and halal meals, in public institutions.

The latest efforts to strengthen state secularism, dubbed "secularism 2.0", are part of a new bill introduced by the governing Coalition Avenir Quebec (CAQ) on Thursday, expanding on a 2019 religious symbols law that has fuelled fierce debate throughout the country.

The original law prevents judges, police officers, teachers and public servants from wearing symbols such as the kippah, turban or hijab while at work.

Canada's Supreme Court will hear a legal challenge of that law early next year.

Jean-François Roberge, the minister responsible for secularism, told a news conference in French on Thursday that the bill was "part of an approach that respected individual as well as collective rights".

The measures proposed in Bill 9 would:
  • extend the ban on wearing religious symbols to staff in subsidised daycares
  • bar "collective religious practices" like prayer in public spaces, such as parks, without prior authorisation from municipalities
  • prevent students and staff from wearing face coverings in daycare all the way through to post-secondary education

Roberge said the limits on public prayer were in reaction to recent protests in the province, where there has been debate over groups praying at pro-Palestinian demonstrations.
Quote:Last year, 11 teachers - primarily of North African descent - at a Montreal elementary school were suspended after a government report said they had created a toxic environment for students and staff, and largely avoided certain subjects like science and sex education.

Quebec Premier Francois Legault said the teachers had tried to introduce "Islamist" beliefs and vowed to strengthen secularism measures in schools.

In August, a government-mandated committee released a report with recommendations including a ban on religious symbols for daycare workers and the phasing out of public funding for private religious schools.

And last month, the Legault government passed a law extending secularism rules to staff who interact with students in public primary and high schools, and barring students from wearing face coverings.
Quote:Bill 21 prohibits public officials in positions of authority - such as judges, police officers, teachers and public servants - from wearing religious symbols such as the kippah, turban or hijab while at work.

It also requires public services to be provided and received with the face uncovered.
Quote:Bill 21 does not mention any specific religion and would include symbols worn by a person of any faith, including Christians, and affirms the religious neutrality of the province.

But critics argue it targets mostly religious minorities, especially women of Muslim faith.
Sounds like Quebec would definitely get banned on Era.
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The UK game now has secret lore with someone discovering a deleted ending

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https://www.resetera.com/threads/stellar-blade-has-a-snoozefest-of-a-story.1407592/
LRG employee Jawmuncher
Quote:Rolling credits now and enjoyed my time well enough with "Nier Automata at Home". It even had some unique moments here and there such as suddenly having a "resident evil" level (that it sadly repeats without much changing). It's a solid enough game that's dragged down by its story however.

The plot from the jump really expects you to care about what it's throwing at you, despite not giving you enough reason to ever get invested. Don't get me wrong, I can take "cliche" written narratives if the world or characters are appealing but Stellar Blade absolutely likes that. As various cutscenes played where nothing of value was happening, all I could think was the devs going "I hope these characters being sexy is enough to make up for this plot".

With all of the negativity out of the way though, the gameplay as a whole feels like something that'll sing better with a sequel. Especially as even the story concerns have been brought up as a big miss by the devs themselves (due to going way too big)

Fake Edit: The next game needs way better costumes. I don't get why everything had to be a skin tight suit or something with some form of revealing nature to it. Even Nier Automata gave the player options for heavier tactical gear.

For a title that wants you to play "dress up", it really doesn't offer all that much in the way of variety when it comes to aesthetic.
He is aware he can post this in the burqa thread, right?
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/man-sam-raimis-spiderman-2-aged-like-the-finest-of-wines.1407589/page-2#post-150105538

ZeoVGM, post: 150105223, member: 1119 wrote:Yes, because I have taste and am not blinded by nostalgia.

Not as lmao as implying that Thunderbolts and First Steps are bad.

Thunderbolts is a better movie than Spider-Man 1, by the way.

[Image: u0UXBh3.png]



More Jeffery pushback
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(01-15-2026, 10:09 PM)Jansen wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/man-sam-raimis-spiderman-2-aged-like-the-finest-of-wines.1407589/page-2#post-150105538

ZeoVGM, post: 150105223, member: 1119 wrote:Yes, because I have taste and am not blinded by nostalgia.

Not as lmao as implying that Thunderbolts and First Steps are bad.

Thunderbolts is a better movie than Spider-Man 1, by the way.



More Jeffery pushback
Jeff Marvel
Quote:Thunderbolts is a better movie than Spider-Man 1, by the way.
Lunchbox-
Quote:you gave away your troll character with that

had me until then, good job
lol

Edited: Beaten  Feels bad, man
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(01-15-2026, 10:07 PM)Taco Bell Tower wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/stellar-blade-has-a-snoozefest-of-a-story.1407592/
LRG employee Jawmuncher
Quote:Fake Edit: The next game needs way better costumes. I don't get why everything had to be a skin tight suit or something with some form of revealing nature to it. Even Nier Automata gave the player options for heavier tactical gear.

For a title that wants you to play "dress up", it really doesn't offer all that much in the way of variety when it comes to aesthetic.
Another cis staff member showing they don't get high femme ideals, this is exactly why the staff need more trans members.
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/man-sam-raimis-spiderman-2-aged-like-the-finest-of-wines.1407589/page-2#post-150106195

[Image: O2ihUCv.png]
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(01-15-2026, 06:23 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote:
Quote:“It’s the embodiment of the left,” Greenwood says. “The left look for traitors, the right for converts and it’s depressing that we are the closest they can get.” He sighs. He is already working on another record with Israeli and Middle Eastern musicians. “And it’s nuts I feel frightened to admit that. Yet that feels progressive to me — booing at a concert does not strike me as brave or progressive.”

“But you are whitewashing genocide, mate,” Yorke deadpans. “And so am I, apparently, by sitting next to you on this sofa.”

Am I out of touch?

Edit:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/jonny-greenwood-and-israeli-musician-dudu-tassa-condemn-%E2%80%98silencing%E2%80%99-after-uk-concerts-pulled.1182102/

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(01-15-2026, 09:11 PM)Hap Shaughnessy wrote: https://www.resetera.com/threads/will-the-2020s-be-regarded-as-one-of-the-worst-decades-in-recorded-history.1407496/

omfg
In hindsight it will. People are slowly starting to see the ramifications of a society addicted to screens, fueled by virtue signaling, "feminism", (forced) migration and DEI.

Just look at ResetEra "that" used to be NeoGAF. Somewhat intelligent well educated people with hopes and dreams.

A generation of single childless women (some 30% - 40% of millenial women) will crash and burn and an upcoming generation of 20-somethings can't start their careers because of "AI". Everyone lost 2 - 4 years of their lives because of COVID. For some children that is damage that can't be repaired for some women that's years they can't rewind. Ukraine and Russia will have been demographically decimated. Japan didn't manage to "recover" this decade and neither did Europe. NATO might fall apart over Greenland. The mess in Iran could spark a big war in the Middle East. Rampant obesity will cut the lives short of many people. Ending USAID could lead to famine. The troubles Iran is facing: water, cost of living, that'll spread throughout the Middle East. Russia could end up in a civil war still this decade. Putinists vs. Nationalists. In China either a war with Taiwan or also a civil war is not out of the question.

[Image: what-does-this-mean-i-see-it-everywhere-...4728ef4d14]

Even in war there is no honor to fight it or win it. War is using a suicide drone to kill a retarded Russian rapist and 2 mercenaries from Cameroon hiding alone in a trench and people betting if it hits.

Unlike after bad economic times or even war there is no "easy" way out of this because it's economical, political, psychological and cultural. No one seems to know how to stop it from getting worse either. Even those that try to escape or fight it get dragged into the abyss at some point because someone else around them is. Pillars that used to keep society somewhat from spiraling out of control like religion and institutions like the military, universities, hospitals, governments and banks have been rotten and corrupted to the core.  

It's like the Star Wars prequels came to life. George Lucas
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I believe good things can happen.  Smile
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Jeff is getting fucking slaughtered in that thread
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