Journal of Other Forum Analysis (Volume II, Issue 2)

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

Hollywood please give us more Transformers. 

[benji]

Somebody use the riotous account to make a thread about this:

 Some cis do care. (But not enough to be a real ally.)

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

 

 

[HaughtyFrank]

 

[benji]

This is canon.

[HaughtyFrank]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/most-garbage-companion.1557931/page-4#post-156893857

Still defending CP77 

Veelk is such a pussy crying over Keanu 

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

Benji posting about transgenders instead of transformers

sigh

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

[benji]

Benji posting about transgenders instead of transformers

They're different?

[Let's Cyber]

Hollywood please give us more Transformers. 

Peak Megan Fox

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

Benji posting about transgenders instead of transformers

They're different?

https://wegotthiscovered.com/news/transformers-rise-of-the-beasts-introduces-first-canonically-transgender-character-to-cinematic-universe/

[Potato]

Benji posting about transgenders instead of transformers

They're different?

https://wegotthiscovered.com/news/transformers-rise-of-the-beasts-introduces-first-canonically-transgender-character-to-cinematic-universe/

So brave

[benji]

https://wegotthiscovered.com/news/transformers-rise-of-the-beasts-introduces-first-canonically-transgender-character-to-cinematic-universe/

This is the future that libs don't want and so like Gavin Newsom and Pete Buttigieg will rush to help fascists put trans people in camps.

[simiansmarts]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/sonic-racing-crossworlds-ot-all-stars-welcome.1303161/page-38#post-156894151 

Yes, the new model for Axel was made with AI. That's the worst case scenario, anyways.

The original design had him dyeing his hair green since he naturally had black/brown hair (i forgot that imgur doesn't work on this site but a simple google image search will show this being the case for *multiple* games)

The new design has him with completely natural green hair, which is completely unnatural to how he has always been portrayed, and I don't really feel like giving Sega the benefit of the doubt here since they've already disclosed how they're using AI in this game.

So either Sega completely fucking forgot about details in a character they designed, thereby making them completely incompetent; or they used AI in his design and the idiot machine saw his green hair and assumed his hair is green from top to bottom rather than a dye job.

 
The AI psychosis is making these dudes go CRAZY

[Daffy Duck]

Transformers, males in disguise

[benji]

Libs going down in flames, time for the guillotines.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/3-democratic-socialists-have-ousted-incumbents-in-ny%E2%80%99s-legislature-claire-valdez-and-brad-lander-win-darializa-on-track-to-oust-espaillat.1559158/

Schumer and AIPAC going to see Mamdani as a threat now

They've always seen him as a threat, they just have a shitty play book and will stick to it until the end of time/their term.

Standing against genocide is good policy and good politics

Good shit. Enough of the ineffectual corporate sell-outs

The Winds of change are upon us! More progressives. AOC 2028! Lets go

Oh the batshit one won. Establishment dems really fucking missed the boat while lining up for their donations.

Who is batshit?

Awesome. Now get rid of schumer, jeffries, and torres as soon as possible

Oh the batshit one won. Establishment dems really fucking missed the boat while lining up for their donations.

lmao

I need some real explanations from smarter people than me(not hard) to explain why paid opposition Dems being voted out is a bad thing. Ya had plenty of time to change things. Let the new crew do the dew.

But Capitalism promises so much like AI you don't want and tons of money you can't have and uhh uhh uhh

Poll after poll has shown the dem party is unpopular nationwide. The Dem establishment hasn't really shown much effort in changing coarse. Especially their views on Israel.

So this will keep happening nation wide.

Good. The established dems do not care what people want.

Too busy pampering a genocidal apartheid state

People seem mad about this for some reason

Want to live the Biden era all over again.

Well gee, we need to please the moderates or else we might get Trump again!
..

Whelp

The blue tide is coming!

its sooo funny they tried to use DAC's tweets about saying Kamala Harris fucking sucks against her lmao

I'd like to imagine that had the opposite effect.

And shout out to NY-13 for telling the racists and bigots to fuck off. Theres no place for that anymore. Dari was subjected to some truly heinous shit

The thing about it is, Moderates do not care about politics. They do not really even care about policy. As long as their lives do not get worse, they just care about the spectacle. Excite them! Trump promising to shake things up, drain the swamp, whatever, was more exciting then f'n Joe Biden or Harris. It is just where we are in society. Blame social media or the times, but we are.

Promise change and people eat it up. Establishment Dems hate the idea. Means they are out of the job and out of the grift!

Your average Democratic-strategist-brain freak who has been warning how voters don't want these types of candidates because they go "too far" are in absolute fucking shambles right now. SHAMBLES.

I hope every single one of them loses their job and is exiled from the party.

Career democrats and moderates are not going to save us. This guy is a shithead and this line of thinking is why Harris lost in 2024. I'm tired of giving these people any more attention.

Its hilarious that establishment dems feel entitled to support from progressives and people from marginalized backgrounds when this is how they treat us when we don't fall in line with their vision of the party. They really do feel like they own us and are betrayed when we want our interests to replace theirs.

Their vision for the party is so profoundly undemocratic.

They think we're nothing more than little vote pigs. Our needs, our concerns, they don't matter. Just vote for the next shell of corporate buyouts and be happy they're "blue".

I need this framed

They really thought this was gonna do it?

Guess they didn't check the facts.

This is so funny because only a lame-o would find this uncouth.

What was her percentage with non-white voters? She got crushed in the Bronx.  

As happy as I am to see DSA candidates winning, this is all barely a blip compared to how significant the Tea Party movement was for the GOP.

Yes, because it's still very early (hopefully), and this movement doesn't have billionaires funding the whole op. The rights Tea Party was a straight up buyout. This is the will of the people.

Yep. It's crazy to even compare the two. The Tea Party was manufactured by billionaires from the ground up.

Durable movements take time and a massive fucking ton of work to build. Tea Party was mostly astroturf too, wasn't it?

The "people" being a plurality of a Democratic primary in one state. (And "manufactured by billionaires" "astroturf" that eliminated many of the GOP's longest term Chamber of Commerce and lobbyist supporters.  )

Awesome. Now get rid of schumer, jeffries, and torres as soon as possible

Do we have quality candidates to run against them?

The last two literally were up tonight too.

I was in NY for a work thing for a week at the end of May and I kept texting my wife how incredible the vibes in the city were. Felt like the happiest place on earth, even before the knicks won game 1. NYC is having an incredible moment.

I just visiting for fun in May and immediately wanted to move there especially while Mamdani is mayor. NYC really is having a moment.

 

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

now if only the DSA would tell their members to vote for ML candidates like they should instead of billionaires.

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

Jeff you were literally cheering on Kamala when she stole the nomination from Biden. Don't think I've forgotten your coconut on Twitter.

[benji]

The "average voter"  

[benji]

For comparison, this is Jeff's Congressional District:



edit: Jeff's parents live in the Congressional District Brianna Wu ran in.

[Polident]

https://wegotthiscovered.com/news/transformers-rise-of-the-beasts-introduces-first-canonically-transgender-character-to-cinematic-universe/

I watched this movie and I can't remember a single thing about it. Nothing good. Nothing bad. Just...nothing. I can tell you more about that Bloodshot movie with Vin Diesel.

[benji]

now if only the DSA would tell their members to vote for ML candidates like they should instead of billionaires.

We used to have a name for the DSA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism

[Orange Juice Box]

Benji posting about transgenders instead of transformers

They're different?

https://wegotthiscovered.com/news/transformers-rise-of-the-beasts-introduces-first-canonically-transgender-character-to-cinematic-universe/

Rise of the Beasts?     Like the car in Cyberpunk?

[benji]

So much for cancel culture update:

After the conservative activist was shot, Ruhtenberg wrote things like "live by the sword, die by the sword" and "you reap what you sow" and that she disagreed with Kirk's views about the Second Amendment. Ruhtenberg also said that "whoever shot [Kirk] should go to prison."

Two days after that complaint, a right-wing outlet in Iowa emailed Ruhtenberg's employer to ask for a comment about her posts. The next day, she was terminated, less than five days after her initial post. Ruhtenberg had spent 15 years as a public defender for the state of Iowa.

Ruhtenberg appealed her termination with the state and got her job back in November. The civil service decision that restored Ruhtenberg's job noted that only the single complaint and the media inquiry raised concerns about her conduct.

State public defender Jeff Wright testified during the appeals proceedings that Ruhtenberg was fired because her posts were perceived as condoning violence.

People embrace in front of a memorial for Charlie Kirk at the Turning Point USA headquarters on September 12, 2025 in Phoenix. Kirk, the CEO and co-founder of Turning Point USA, was shot and killed on Wednesday in Utah. (Photo by Eric Thayer/Getty Images)

Ruhtenberg then sued the state and Wright in federal court for First Amendment retaliation. In May, they settled and Ruhtenberg was awarded $125,000 in damages.

Melissa Crook was a high school teacher at Creston Community School District in Iowa. She was fired after commenting on a family member's Facebook post that  "I do not wish death on anyone, but [him] not being here is a blessing." She settled with the school district for $145,000 and full benefits and left the school as part of the settlement.

Suzanne Swierc, who worked as a health educator at Ball State University in Indiana, was fired after penning a Facebook post that included "If you think Charlie Kirk was a wonderful person, we can't be friends" and "while it's difficult, I can and do pray for his soul." She settled for $225,000 and left the university as part of the settlement.

Brittney Brown, formerly a biologist with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, was fired after reposting a satirical account that pretends to be a whale: "they care exactly as much [about the shooting of Kirk] as charlie kirk cared about children being shot in their classrooms, which is to say, not at all." She was fired a day after the right-wing influencer account Libs of TikTok, which was spearheaded by Chaya Raichik, highlighted Brown and called for her firing. She settled with the state for $485,000 and left the agency.

Darren Michael, a tenured professor at Austin Peay State University in Tennessee, was fired after posting a news story from 2023 with the headline "Charlie Kirk Says Gun Deaths 'Unfortunately' Worth it to Keep 2nd Amendment." He got his job back and received a $500,000 settlement, according to The New York Times.

While many people lost their jobs over things they posted online, Larry Bushart, a retired law enforcement officer in Tennessee, was wrongfully detained. He was jailed by the local sheriff's department in Perry County, Tenn., for 37 days on a $2 million bond for posting a meme that the department claimed caused "mass hysteria." The meme quoted President Trump reacting to a school shooting in 2024 at Perry High School in Iowa: "We have to get over it." After his release, Bushart received a $835,000 settlement.

When it came to Ruhtenberg, the state said in the federal lawsuit that her words "were considered in determining whether they did, or likely could have, created workplace disharmony, impeded the performance of Plaintiff or other employees, or otherwise had an adverse impact on the employer's operations," even though the office only received one complaint and one media inquiry about her post.

For Ruhtenberg, the nine weeks it took to get her job back was one of the hardest stretches in her life. "I thought my career was over."

Ruhtenberg said she felt vindicated for successfully defending her First Amendment rights, and she hopes that other people will do the same. She told NPR she no longer discusses politics on Facebook. "It was traumatic. I don't want to go through that again," she said, "I felt targeted. I felt hated."

Now that her case is over, Brown, the biologist, has started to speak out on social media again. She said she still doesn't know who screenshotted her Instagram story and how it ended up on Libs of TikTok's account, "but I want them to know that they lost. I won. I can speak out now. And you didn't shut me up forever."

Brown has another job now and continues to work with seabirds and shorebirds, but she told NPR she really wanted her old job back. "I know that sounds insane, but I loved what I did," she said. "I would gladly have gone back to it. That was all I wanted this entire time. And if we couldn't have that, then I at least wanted to send the message that you can't get away with stuff like this."

Crook, the high school teacher, said in a statement that she sued to "protect the rights of public educators and other public servants to engage in the public discourse." After being awarded the settlement, her priority "has shifted toward moving forward in my life and in the profession I love."

Swierc, the health educator, is still looking for jobs. She culled her social media friend list and has been going to therapy to process what happened to her. She felt a lot of things, but "the big one was shame, even though fundamentally I did nothing wrong." Losing her job felt like a rejection that cut deep, she said, but she may finally be at a point where she is starting to find peace.

Exactly why we need harsher hate speech laws so these yts who didn't learn when not to speak would be where they belong: prison, which should be abolished.

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

Alleged CIA operative Erika Kirk was activated when her "husband" started speaking against Israel.

The rest is history.

[Chumbawumbafan69]

They're different?

https://wegotthiscovered.com/news/transformers-rise-of-the-beasts-introduces-first-canonically-transgender-character-to-cinematic-universe/

Rise of the Beasts?     Like the car in Cyberpunk?

The cruelty is the point.

[TylenolJones]

 Chud alert

The chuds are inside the house. 

Have you forgotten Kyle rittenhouse who brought a gun to a protest, killed a protester, and became right wing famous.
Having a gun only carries consequences if you're on the wrong side.

He was trying to flee when the mob, including the 2 convicted pedophiles, chased him and attacked him for no reason. These guys went, plotted to kill federal agents, and shot a regular police officer unprovoked. They can eat sht. Totally different situation.

He went out of his way to get chased by a mob just for putting out a fire? He predicted he would be attacked unprovoked? Lmao. It's concerning that you are so sad about two dead pedos.

But let's assume you're right and he somehow knew they would attack him. Are you telling me these "people" are so violent that they literally cannot resist attacking people for no reason? Sounds like society is better off without them.

MODS HELP!!!

https://www.resetera.com/threads/texas-anti-ice-protesters-convicted-of-terrorism-charges-sentenced-to-at-least-50-years-in-prison.1558708/#post-156903241

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

 Chud alert

The chuds are inside the house. 

Have you forgotten Kyle rittenhouse who brought a gun to a protest, killed a protester, and became right wing famous.
Having a gun only carries consequences if you're on the wrong side.

He was trying to flee when the mob, including the 2 convicted pedophiles, chased him and attacked him for no reason. These guys went, plotted to kill federal agents, and shot a regular police officer unprovoked. They can eat sht. Totally different situation.

He went out of his way to get chased by a mob just for putting out a fire? He predicted he would be attacked unprovoked? Lmao. It's concerning that you are so sad about two dead pedos.

But let's assume you're right and he somehow knew they would attack him. Are you telling me these "people" are so violent that they literally cannot resist attacking people for no reason? Sounds like society is better off without them.

MODS HELP!!!

https://www.resetera.com/threads/texas-anti-ice-protesters-convicted-of-terrorism-charges-sentenced-to-at-least-50-years-in-prison.1558708/#post-156903241

The bire as we wait for the ban message.

[simiansmarts]

Why do internet leftists start parading the death of liberalism whenever a democratic socialist wins in a deeply blue state or district?   
 
To this day they still swear the Clinton-Biden deep state is responsible for Bernie losing the primary like a bunch of QAnoners

[benji]

I tried to find the Nepenthe post I referenced before about how some people needed to learn not to speak growing up and couldn't. But I did dip into the post history so that means another episode of Nepenthe's Wise Wisdom.

First:

I've never been drunk or high off of weed either. I have been loopy off of Mucinex before. That was fun. It says don't break the tablet for a reason.

Wow, a teetotaler just like Trump!  

everything from the business side of illumination seems awesome. they're like the first big studio that ruthlessly mocked AI for example

I just wish their movies were good

The business side decided that American animators need not apply and outsourced the animation to make the films even cheaper. Capitalism is still capitalism'ing there.

Yikes, not wanting Global South animators to get jobs over yt lib colonialists! Not a good look!

When did pre-production/planning become so throwaway in people's eyes?

I don't think you could get the average person to give you a generalized breakdown on what it takes to produce any given piece of art, especially one as multidisciplinary as video games, nor do I think the average person really cares about the sheer talent necessary for pre-production. Fundamentally we are all isolated from the reality of how much labor and the qualitative nature that goes into the shit we make in the first place, and thus the reality of the matter doesn't commonly enter into people's minds. Consumers largely only care about the end result, which in turn is partly why AI was so enticing- you could "cut out all the tedious work."

but whose saying anyone is obligated to buy a game?

Several members have complained about people punishing the devs for protesting against the AI use. That's basically an argument that you should buy the game.

It's a shitty situation for all, but there's a specific hostility industry folk here have to face in every thread on the topic and sometimes its just a bummer that there's no voice trying to represent those members.

I've worked in the industry before, and by worked in the industry I mean I've actually done animation for video games without the use of AI, because I have the fucking skills to do it myself. I do not value the opinion of people, even those in the industry, who insist that there is meaningful nuance to be had here beyond giving grace to people who are forced to use it.

I can understand not using gen AI, but more and more companies will start to depend on it. If you vote with your wallet, you will eventually not be able to buy anything (every gaming hardware company is working on gen AI). Maybe just Nintendo first-party games, but even the Switch 2 uses an Nvidia chip which is a core part of gen AI industry. At that point you might as well bow out of current games and just play retro stuff.

Oh no, I might have to consume less.

I'm all for consuming less, but if you're not a hypocrite, you should only play consoles or on PCs built before gen AI was a thing for these hardware companies.

I'm following that trend already. Now what?

Ultimately, concerning one's self with the habits of consumers is meaningless when consumers are not actually driving the demand for AI within the arts- capitalist speculation and cost cutting is.

"You're a hypocrite if you don't buy x but buy z."

Capitalists are burning the world down. Fuck off.

For real. Like am I going to get lectured the next time I fill my car up with gas to get around my car-centric suburban hellscape?

People have somehow lived over three-plus decades of life and cannot muster any ability to actually analyze and discuss issues and concepts on a systemic and material level, even issues that have affected a hobby they have partaken in since children. It's fucking wild.

Nothing, if you are already doing that, it makes sense to me.

I just don't understand where people are drawing the line. Of course each person draws their own line and that's fine, but I'm curious how far each person is taking this.

Why does it matter where people are drawing their personal line when the use of generative AI within the arts is not driven by consumer sentiment or worker demand? Your question is meaningless, because again you aren't even engaging with the fundamental reality of generative AI underneath a Western neoliberal context.

since I'm not intelligent enough to figure it out myself, what do you mean by "engaging with the fundamental reality of generative AI underneath a Western neoliberal context."?

Most people in this topic are not understanding what generative AI is actually being used for and who it's for. It's not to help speed up workflows because we have data that says that there's a negligible to negative difference in pipelines that use generative AI because you have to go back and fix the shit. It's also not to meet a demand on part of consumers either because no one wants this fucking crap but capitalists and AI glazers have decided "fuck you, we're going to shove it down your throat anyway."

Generative AI is primarily being used to A.) Weaken labor power by being drummed up as an excuse to get rid of specialized workers, B.) Serve as a glorified pyramid scheme as companies buy each other's stocks and investments in the pursuit of the potential for a massive return in the financial markets, and C.) To bolster the surveillance state and propaganda arms for Western imperialism both at home and abroad, particularly in conflicts like the Palestinian genocide.

This shit is not some uWu innocent little tool to help oppressed artists unshackle themselves from the burden of making art. It is obviously a power play by capitalists on numerous fronts built on the biggest theft of intellectual property and labor in human history, likely outdoing the goddamn Transatlantic Slave Trade in terms of sheer value of labor stolen.

And y'all are sitting here like "Well, did you buy a graphics card? Because that's hypocritical." Like fuck off.

Is it wrong to try to understand how other people are thinking about an issue like this?

I'll admit the way I talked about hypocrisy sounded like I was attacking those who do buy gaming hardware and don't buy games made with gen AI, but I'm just trying to follow their line of thinking because I do not really understand it. Maybe the answer for them is, "yes, I did buy gaming hardware because it's the only way to play current games, but I draw the line at games made with gen AI because I still want to play modern games but won't support explicit gen AI use". It seems most folks fall into this camp, but there are people like you who are taking it further?

I'm saying that a lot of online conversations about political and economic subjects don't actually delve into any meaningful or productive subject matter. People's consumption habits don't really matter to the issue at hand because gen AI isn't directly correlated with direct demand and consumption habits. I'm not saying your question is ethically wrong; I'm saying it's facile.

Nothing we discuss on this forum will actually make a difference in the usage of gen AI and I'm not trying to get into the hairy mess that is gen AI.

I'm not arguing that a conversation can change the world. I'm arguing for a conversation that is meaningfully analytical.

Put developers forward, their talents and their skills, and use AI to complement it, not to replace it.

Do you not know how capitalism works?

This thread to me is half the forum populace arguing against a handful ignored users with like 100 posts each lol.

Y'all need to get better sussing out tech bro trolls and/or bots just "being curious".

 

If people on "progressive forum" ResetEra still believe in the Year of our Lord 2026 that the country was actively founded on ideals of prosperity and democracy for all people, that the Founding Fathers legitimately wanted everyone to achieve "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" just by working a stable job or whatever, that our soft power was rendered for the sake of actually trying to help the Global South rather then entrench our economic might no matter the human toll, then that tells you to what extent people are still unable to come to grips with the problems of this country. And if you cannot come to grips with a problem, you cannot actually begin to suggest and implement meaningful solutions.

America has the potential to become a decent country, but not when its citizens still essentially believe in American imperialism.

...a final meaningful solution?

For example, one of my biggest pet peeves is when people describe the United States as the world's oldest democracy, despite the fact that the Voting Rights Act wasn't passed until 1965.

I mean, plenty of Indigenous and African groups practiced various forms of democratic and communal decision-making before the US was a concept germinating in the slavers' heads anyways. So ignoring that framing, Black people were voting well before the Civil Rights Act then anyways. Hell, we actually achieved an all-Black electorate in a small town in 1898...

Which was subsequently burned down by white people in a coup. (And you thought Jan 6 was unprecedented)

Just a little mistakey-wakey though. Totally a country with a good, moral head on its shoulders from the beginning.

I didn't know stating a fact was "GOP enabling" 😂

Guys, can you just ignore all the genocides we've directly committed or indirectly enabled? The midterms are coming up.

America was built on stolen land and used slavery to develop itself. Sure the slavery has ended but they're still frequently threatening to take land from others like Canada, Greenland etc. Very little of the formula has actually changed, just it's constructed in a manner that appears more agreeable at a surface level. You only need to look a little deeper to see the same cogs turning.

Did slavery end? News to me.

I'd agree fwiw, I just didn't wanna say it in case it comes off as offensive or reducing that horrific time in any way

On the contrary, I think it's pertinent to recognize that our prison population is basically just the continuance of slave labor (it's even still in the Constitution) as well as the fact that we still get a lot of our resources from slave labor off the continent.

The clothing you wear, the food you eat, the luxuries you enjoy are all built upon the suffering of the global south and other "impoverished" areas.

All that and Capitalism is just a different more sinister form of slavery in which the enslaved doesn't even realize they don't have any choice but to join in the system or suffer the consequences of non conformity.

That's a good point, and tbh by excluding the off continent slave labor it kinda wraps back around to reducing that instead. It's a topic I just try to be cautious on since I don't wanna accidentally word something wrong as I know it could be deeply hurtful.

One thing I've been thinking a lot on recently tbh is how slavery seems to be tied to the structure of society itself, whether via a political system or even things like religion it always comes back to the same spot, there needing to be an "other" to blame for the struggle of the lower class, which now takes form more as racism etc ofc, but largely because the off continent slavery is rarely seen in the way it would be were it on continent.

That it kinda gives the ruling class an easy escape, where instead we move in these circles of different prejudices being weaponised to keep people at the bottom, having up and down swings of them because the movement doesn't develop to actually forcing change as the effects are kept hidden from our eyes by design now.

Slavery in a more modern context comes down to the fact that labor needs to be done one way or another in order to support a society, and a really easy way to make sure labor is performed to excess- especially for the benefit of the ruling classes- is just to forcibly subjugate humans into performing it.

The racism and othering comes after the slavery is implemented, because you need a post hoc justification for the dehumanization necessary for slavery in order for the theft to continue and to stave off abolition. As I said in other threads, the designation of a "Black" race of people happened after their enslavement was observed in the Middle East, and subsequently the designation of a "white" race above the slave race was established in English law to break up Irish and African rebel coalitions in the Caribbean that had already formed.

As you note, these manufactured and perpetuated schisms are useful for continuing to hinder class consciousness of the lower classes because you can always utilize them against the ignorant folks to stir up some classic scapegoating. But there is another side of the coin to this, which is that these schisms must be balanced with some level of assimilation and performative addressing of grievance, because having a significant population of people who have no hope or prospects of a dignified life with access to books and guns is asking for war.

That is why the Civil Rights Act was passed, as well as other tokens like Black History Month and MLK Day. The political class decided it would be impossible to keep business moving if 13% of the population was ready and willing to do a Haiti. They didn't actually fix anything, of course; the money and land from the Slave Trade was already theirs and they certainly weren't going to give it back. They gave just enough for the people to decide that liberation didn't need to be in the cards.

And then they turned around, killed all the revolutionary figures like Fred Hampton, rewrote the history books, and covered the urban communities in drugs from which to pilfer more money in fines, more slave labor from jailings, and to break up more communities to continue rendering Black, Brown, and Indigenous communities as subservient in the War on Drugs.

This is why I personally don't believe or aspire to assimilation within this country as it currently stands. I don't get any joy or hope at the prospect of a Black President. Kendrick Lamar draping himself in the American flag during his Superbowl performance was not inspiring to me. It's a joke. America cannot be a good country until we understand that small concessions from the ruling class are really just the red flags that they are, until we decide that we need to engage in a lifelong struggle towards ending this imperial project and that the capitalists need to go.

Anything less than that is just an acquiescence to American imperialism, which is a trap. You get enough treats and benefits and comfort that you think "Well, it can't be all bad. What's the harm?" You think you're safe (as you correctly said, off-continent slavery is seen in a different light than it would be if it was happening here in the open.) Then you look at the Gaza genocide, unable to understand how the sheer bombardment of all the concrete is raising global temperatures that affect you, helping to train police that will come back around to kill your neighbors, causing global economic fallout fucking up your gas prices. What happens abroad comes home.

And yet people here still think our soft power and propaganda are good things! With everything happening that is a result of America imperialism, they still think imperialism can be salvaged for the benefit of humanity! Again, it shows you just how intellectually bereft the American populous is at properly diagnosing the sheer amount of barbarity underpinning this, to the point that I flip-flop back and forth on whether or not the solution for people who actually, genuinely, mean well is to just get out of America and join up with comrades elsewhere, because the propagandized brain-rot runs deep even in ostensibly "left-leaning" circles.

As much as I love watching the US realize they're awful, I wish y'all were doing it in a way that didn't affect other countries.

I'm not sure what people confronting the US's history and purpose has to do with what Trump is doing, nor am I impressed that folks in the West outside of America are only now caring about American imperialism because it's finally affecting them personally.

No, we've cared about it for a long time. Trump is just the latest in the "Hey, we're all losing because America is having yet another identity crisis while it tries to manipulate the world to like it more" events in the world.

The US is the kid who said something racist and got the class trip cancelled because of it.

The care was pretty facile. Plenty of Europeans, Canadians, and Australians have fought in our wars in the Middle East, glossed over our atrocities in the international criminal courts, and enjoyed the fruits of a powerful extractionist economic status quo. Minorities suffering under the wrath of American oppression within the borders were barely offered condolences. Hell, Canadians saw what was going on with Black Americans and still told those seeking asylum to kick rocks. Some fucking allies.

The entire West is ultimately culpable for the state of the world up until this point. Indeed, you characterize the status quo as a fun "class trip" that only America has ruined, ie, Western imperialism was great for you until America starts acting in its own geopolitical interests regardless of the ramifications for the current world order in doing so.

That's a big assumption. Alot of us have been watching helplessly as things have been getting worse over decades at this point.

If you're not going to give Americans the excuse of not doing enough to dispose of Trump, I am not impressed with acting like you've all been totally "helpless." The fact is, you've all benefitted from American imperialism, you've all had a stake in the previous maintenance of the world order at the expense of countless millions of lives, many of you have had a direct hand in colonizing Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East, and I'm not going to sit here and act like fucking Europeans and Canadians are victims on par with Iranians, Indians, or Brazilians. Frankly y'all are getting off lightly for the crimes your countries have committed throughout history and your inability to confront that is just as infuriating as the people here acting like America has always been some progressive project for the good of humanity that's just been merely derailed.

Enough.

It's true that we've benefited from American hegemony, and it's also true that we're only seeing a small taste of what a good portion of the world has suffered under said hegemony. I struggle with this alot if I'm being honest. But nobody is claiming that things are on par with Iran, or Gaza, or the global south. That's not true in any measure.
America has never been a progressive bastion, this isn't a derailment, this is the logical conclusion of the american project. Starting from the formation of the electoral college.
And yes, we are helpless. And it's partly our own fault for hiding behind and ceding to american power.

I'm sorry, but the neoliberal nationalistic fervor that has happened with Canadians and Europeans in the wake of Trump's second term has not only been nauseating to sit back and watch quietly, but also utterly insulting given the fact that the rearrangement of economic blocks is not going to even fully discount America due to the way the current economic system is set up in the first place. It's all fucking theater. Hell, your countries can't even be bothered to rule against Israel and some of you are jailing Pro-Palestinian protestors, literally siding with imperialism yet again because it benefits you. But you're totally anti-American. Give me a break.

No one in the West is helpless to fight back against imperialism given the high standard of living and access to human needs and technology enjoyed by those in the imperial core. Lost and uneducated, perhaps, but that's a problem that can be solved. But helpless? Absolutely not. You don't get to have that out from your responsibilities no more than Americans do.

We had an economic gun pointed at our heads telling us to jump in to your oil fights.

Aww, poor little Westerner. Your precious economy would've suffered because your world leaders decided it would be a great idea to have the dollar as the reserve currency in the aftermath of WWII since the Atlantic Ocean buffered the US against most of the damage of the fighting and thus our economy wasn't tanked to shit. We HAVE to go in and kill those Iraqis and Libyans! We're hostages too! What about us?!

Meanwhile, people in Latin America, Africa, Asia, the Middle East were legitimately fighting against worse odds, worse economic conditions, with less access to material needs and supplies, and sometimes ultimately rebuking their oppressors to achieve actual liberation. Like goddamn, the Vietnamese were undergoing a famine and still kicked out the Americans and the French.

Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for you! Y'all took a deal with the Devil because you all also benefitted from the blood running in the streets, and now that the deal is going sour I'm supposed to care now? Colonizers of a feather flock together; some of y'all are no less brainwashed than the Americans you make fun of.

*American* imperialism is the topic. We can't do anything about that. Obviously we can make changes domestically and I will consistently vote for the person who has this in their platform, but this isn't about that - this is about your disdain for non-americans and our reactions for having the gun pointed in our direction. And it's a big gun.
And yes the Carney push to diversify is still making moves in the same rotten system, one that needs to be torn down, no argument from me.

I agree with you that the topic is about American imperialism from a historical lens, and I've been quite happy to discuss that as you can clearly see from my posts in the beginning of the thread.

So I don't know why another Westerner came into the topic to derail about how much they're upset that Trump is fucking over their precious imperial economy other than to get in another useless potshot at America from a glass house.

I also have no disdain for non-Americans as a principle. I have a disdain for Western imperialists no matter where they live. Turns out a lot of you all subscribe to Western imperialism when it suits you. If you didn't want this argument, y'all should've stayed out of it and just let the Americans squabble; pop some popcorn and just point and laugh. But now that the Europeans and Canadians wanna act like they had nothing to do with this shit, that they're hapless victims, I'm going to happily remind you that that's a fucking lie.

Aren't you American, you benefited from the same situations that I did. Your criticisms aren't any more or less valid than mine because we've both lived in societies that have benefited from the wests colonization and genocides for expansion and power.

The difference between you and me is that I've been sounding the alarm against American imperialism for years off and online before it finally came back to bite American allies in the ass. I was able to understand that just because my economy was stable, just because I have access to the benefits of imperial standards of living, didn't mean this was a good thing for other people, that other people's lives mattered. Half of y'all only came out of the woodwork to play-act at being anti-American when Trump got back into office a second time and tanked your shit, and I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the fact that lessons have still not been learned that this is not a situation of individual actors and isolated countries who somehow have no hand in what is going on. We are all in this shit together, and all Western countries are culpable for the myriad of decision-making and happy accidents that led us to this moment today. We have a duty as human beings to act in the best regards of the most vulnerable, to support them unconditionally, not just when we finally perceive the negative effects to ourselves. Again, y'all are getting only a taste of what you actually deserve.

I've been doing that for years offline and online too! You're not special lol. Just because you can't perceive people in other western nations protesting American/Western imperialism doesn't mean you can just make the assumption that nobody other than Americans do it. You're only seeing it now and assuming that we're only acting on it now, because your country is incredibly isolationist. I'm sick of Americans thinking they're exceptional in doing literally anything, when we've been begging you all to do something, anything, for a very long time. You're only seeing in now, because more of you are considering doing something.

We're absolutely in it together, you're right. But you have this way of going, where if anyone complains about anything that isn't in your immediate priority list, they're lesser than you, and that's not needed. Yeah I'm going to complain that a War that doesn't involve my country puppeted by a country that funds your country is impacting my cost of living. I'm also protesting my government constantly to not capitulate to yours and to work towards a better future, and not do the bullshit they're trying to do because they got a majority because we didn't want to make the same mistake your country made.

Canada only starting "putting their elbows up" when Trump started talking smack about annexation; before then them elbows were squarely resting at the table of Western economic imperialism. Spare me this revisionist notion that pockets of protest inside the West means the West has somehow been a bastion of anti-imperialism. You are not special either and are not an act to follow.

And my problem isn't that you are complaining about something that isn't in my list of priorities, as if you and I have talked long enough to know what my political priorities are. My problem is Canadians and Europeans suddenly play acting at being staunch victims of American imperialism when they are not only some of the biggest benefactors and participants of it but, in Europe's case specifically, are the reason America even fucking exists to begin with. My people have suffered because of all of your fucking countries and thus I'm not interested in entertaining your meager grievances as a Canadian.

One common theme when you read about the american viewpoint of the US-Canadian relationship disintegrating is the focus on the economics of it. The trade wars and tarrifs. Ask any Canadian about it, and the main answer is the annexation. It's not economic mainly, it's the threats to our safety and well being.

Annexation is fundamentally an act in defense of a nation's economic interests. The fact that this is not understood still means lessons haven't been learned.

I also don't see where you are drawing this conclusion that people on this site are acting like their nation had nothing to do with western imperialism, this is a narrative in your head. It doesn't make it true.
But please, tell canadians who were born into this era that we deserve to be frightened about dying to the US military and it's our fault. Amazing stuff.

My contention is that significant backlash to America only happened when America began acting recklessly in its fascistic self-interests which in turn threatened the economic sovereignty of Western nations. Fucking over the African continent though? Crickets.

And I'm really, really sorry you are experiencing fear of America. I as a Black person who's had a cop roll up to me with their finger already on the trigger several times at basic traffic stops have no idea what it's like to fear the American state! None whatsoever!

You never have to worry about another country invading you if you make the wrong choice.

Lol my people have already been thoroughly colonized and brutalized by America and Canada has done very little to nothing to facilitate attempts at liberation! But yes, continue acting like your experience is unique.

A conversation between an american and anyone else has an intrinsic power imbalance. Do you recognize that?
I understand you're angry, and you should be. But this ain't it.

You understand I'm angry, give credence that I should be angry at the West (legitimately kind of you), and yet still want to split hairs over meaningless power differentials between conversationalists living in different Western imperial nations when we're all complicit in shit like Gaza where rats are eating starving children in poisonous camps that could be bombed at any moment.

Y'all aren't serious.

Kept slavery around because it made people a lot of money. Literally inspired Hitler. Nuked Japan because they didn't want the USSR to have a foothold in Japan. Destroyed foreign powers because people with money told them to. Literally helping conduct another Holocaust. But it a work-in-progress. A shitty work-in-progress but a work-in-progress nonetheless.

I mean, a work in progress towards that specifically? Because if we're talking about being an empire based on capitalism and white supremacy, the mission was accomplished centuries ago. Right now it's about trying to maintain the momentum and advantageous economic foothold, hence punishing Venezuela by kidnapping their President (remember when that happened?), the war in Iran, the speed run of Gaza, etc.

To be clear there really wasn't much of a choice in the Breton woods conference and the Nixon admins nonsense. Hell france even sent a battleship to get its gold back. But the US had all the cards there to force the rest of the world off the gold standard and on to the dollar as reserve.

I know the history; I brought it up. My point was that I do not sympathize with people in Western countries suddenly acting like colonized peoples now that Trump is tanking traditional allyships and being a fascist when actual colonized peoples have been fighting true Western barbarism for far longer and in far worse material and economic conditions than most people comfortably reading this forum will ever experience. The people pissed off at me probably have property on top of Native burial grounds or their countries have corporate settlements in Africa. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend here.

Furthermore, it's not like any potentially rearranged allyships are going to result in anything good for actual colonized peoples, because we still live in a capitalist society which necessitates the continued economic oppression and resource extraction on part of the nations responsible for it. Ultimately the Canadian nationalism and European chauvanism masquerading as actual anti-imperialism in the wake of Trump's second term is an utter charade and an insult to the history of anti-imperialism and the peoples who are fighting to achieve it, and I will forever call it as such.

Y'ALL 👏 AREN'T 👏 SERIOUS 👏

[benji]

And now, today in not a conspiracy or extremist forum: https://www.resetera.com/threads/june-20-2026-iran-closes-the-strait-of-hormuz-after-israels-repeated-attacks-on-lebanon.1556176/page-2

Is the world gonna do something about Israel at some point?

What can realistically be done about Israel? , they are a bunch of wild dogs at this point.

Regime change?

isreal is like the one country where the government 100% represents the population. no regime change will improve that country

All the tapes from Epstein that israel has of trump fucking kids probably weigh heavily on his mind. The only way to explain how Trump behaves toward Russia and Israel is that they have leverage over him.

Whats the reason for that though?

The only logical reason I can think of is that billionaires run this country and while they might fund both parties, in reality they own everything and wholeheartedly are Republicans at heart.

It's always, always, always, always, always about rich business owners having their taxes cut. Nothing more, nothing less. They're fine with social progressive causes as long as they don't interfere with their "I get to keep more of the money I earned by not doing any actual work" plans. And since Republicans love to cut taxes on the rich, we see the people pulling the levers in the media constantly make excuses for the GOP.

Because Republicans control the media. They know if they don't linger on the GOP's mistakes, the general public won't either.

Then why do we see the exact same thing on independent leftist media? This is a problem across our society.

I think in terms of leftist media, it simply boils down to the fact that people think Democrats have a concept of shame and can be incited into changing gears if their voters are loud enough. Whether or not that's true is probably dependent on the Democrat and on the cause in question, but it's a belief that a lot of people share.

By comparison, Republican voters are there for the party itself and its causes second, so they don't have any energy for or interest in yelling at the party to change causes. They edit their own beliefs in realtime to pivot to whatever the party tells them to believe.

The markets just do anything that the GOP wants at this point, completely ignoring reality, and I don't know how the fuck you fight that as a Democrat to be honest.

We treat all our politicians like victims of happenstance because we continue to fundamentally believe some of these people care about or can be brought to care about of our class interests. None of them materially do; even if you think that one or two of them are caring people individually, you are not engaging with the reality that their personal sentiments are rendered through layers of consultation, lobbying, and marketing in the service of the ultimate goal of the political class which is the maintenance of American imperialism at the behest of capitalists.

A better country would have long since found where these people live and protested there, maybe chased some of them out, put them in the stockades. But we sit idly by under the impression that the Democrat and Republican theater is legitimately about incompetent good versus unfathomable evil and that we are helpless victims with no agency caught in the middle, like nameless extras running during the finale of a superhero movie. In that vain we act like children ourselves.

Seems like the future is every country but the US and Israel cutting a deal with Iran resulting in the US being fully cut off from the rest of the world.

As an American it's starting to feel like the country will collapse irrevocably by the end of the year. Short of total and absolute political revolution there's no future here but oblivion.

It's literally the end of civilization and global starvation, or doing something about Israel.

Damn, tough decision there

Well, they do have nukes. But I don't think there's any way out except military occupation. They either burn out and take the whole world down with it, or that. We've seen what happens when you let fascist countries continue. They won't stop. They're crazy bloodthirsty psychopaths.

I fully believe Israel wants to be the next country to use a nuclear weapon.

Israel's territorial and genocidal ambitions need to be stopped

The US wont survive conservatism and Israel unless something changes

Can change the US to the whole world.

THIS world won't survive the contradictions of conservatism and Zionism. THE world will.

There's a definite difference.

The Zionists need to abandon their "Greater Israel" obsession and simply accept the creation of a Palestinian state, along with respecting permanent borders.

Until that happens, these wars will never end.

And unless the United States passes laws banning foreign-influence donations and funding for US elections (cough AIPAC cough), the US will continue to be pulled into all these conflicts.

That's stupid though, we can't be treating the GOP like they're toddlers who have yet to be blessed with the ability to roll on their own tummies. If we want them to act like real people, if we want them to act responsibly, we need to help them accountable. Not doing that is how we get to where we are right now.

They need to be treated like adults with agency over their own actions, not babies who aren't ready for tummy time yet.

Treating them like adults and holding them accountable means treating them like traitors to society and humanity but that's a bridge too far for the other people in power for whatever reason.

But no, maybe one day they'll wake up and "work across the aisle!"

Very true. The world historically has survived through worse than a destructive apartheid state.

Yep. There is relief in seeing the collapse and raging contradictions of ostensibly imperial and immoral systems in real time because they do not deserve to remain. Like if America ceases to be a superpower, so fucking be it. My only annoyance is that most folks still are not seizing the opportunity to guide and work towards the building of new systems (or worse, they're trying to just do nicer neoliberalism.) People are still passive and feel helpless; indeed, they think everything, their world, is ending. But the moment you emotionally free yourself from an investment in the maintenance of colonialism is the moment a lot of stress goes away, or at least can be directed to more productive issues.

Goddamn it.

Fucking muzzle Israel already. The horrors have gone on long enough.

At this point they need to be invaded and forced to stop committing all this evil.

Is Israel also not feeling the effects of the oil shortage and economy? Probably because it's a welfare state that gets all the money provided to them by the United States and thus don't really have to care.

Israel was rotten from the start. Trying to form a religious ethno-state in a place where indigenous people already resided makes them no better than the Nazis.

The world will never know peace as long as that parasitical entity called Israel is allowed free reign.

We can regime change everyone else why cant we regime change Israel?

The fact that it is crazy to cut off a small country like israel for the US benefits, tells a lot about how """"strange"""" the relationship is.

If the rumors of Epstein being affiliated with the Mossad are true, then, IF that is true, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Trump would do nothing because he's terrified of what Israel has on him.

Israel isn't going to do that. They are fully committed to the "Greater Israel" thing. Killing and raping muslims (and their children) is just entertainment to them. They're not going to stop until they ARE stopped. It's that simple.

A common thought I've had throughout this conflict is it really feels like post 9/11 Islamophobia was just a smokescreen for Isreal to do far worse.

The entire world needs to sanction Israel like they did to apartheid South Africa.

Oh wait, that would be antisemitic.

Forget Israel seemingly controlling the US, no one in Europe seems to care as Israel craters the global economy either.

Even if Epstein himself wasn't Mossad (I think he was, the links with Maxwell, her father etc seem way too strong, but that's besides the point), I'm pretty sure Mossad would've found a way to acquire the unredacted files regardless.

They certainly have profited from it. Many far-right parties in Europe have had close ties with Israel too (despite often having very antisemitic members). They thrive on Islamophobia, and they want to use "Jews" as a stick to beat Islamic people with. In reality they don't give a fuck about regular Jews, and they adhere to the worst antisemitic conspiracy theories, often connected to hateful rubbish like "the great replacement" or "Eurabia". The whole anti-immigration thing is just that; Islamophobia under another name.

The so-called "Syrian refugee crisis" really ramped things up post-9/11, and it turned a lot of stupid people into hateful bigots.

Israel really needs to become a pariah state in the same way other genocidal regimes are, and I feel like this moment is as close as it will get to happening (barring an actual anti-Zionist candidate in the White House).

As others have said, if anywhere needs regime change, it's Israel, though it would be more accurate to say it needs some kind of whole-scale culture change with how high support there is for the genocide/apartheid. Certainly getting rid of Bibi will not suffice.

Don't know what that would take. Some kind of invasion and subsequent military defeat and then propaganda campaign like with the Axis powers?

Israel owns America, what more proof do you need?

Release of the Epstein Files?

I just don't understand what's the end goal of Israel, do they plan to be in an eternal war with every neighbour of theirs? The opinion of everyone about them has already sunk into the abyss not even their defenders defend them that much anymore. When will they stop?

There is no end goal except death and expansion. That's all there is to it. I've said it before in this thread; they will not stop by their own volition...they have to be stopped.

I just don't understand what's the end goal of Israel, do they plan to be in an eternal war with every neighbour of theirs? The opinion of everyone about them has already sunk into the abyss not even their defenders defend them that much anymore. When will they stop?

They want Israel to expand across the entire middle east.

Google "Greater Israel"

Just want to say that as a Palestinian:

It's genuinely disgusting seeing time and time again from posters on here try to pin all of Israel's actions on Netanyahu, and not the deep rot in all of Israeli society that has allowed them to massacre Palestinians and beyond since its very inception.

That, and the insinuation that as long as Israel "stays within its borders," everything is all hunkey dory. That the continued genocide and apartheid of Palestinians is both inevitable and acceptable.

Y'all need to practice some shame before you post.

I do wonder how much US capitulation to Isreal, outside of religious Zionism and cynical imperialism, is genuine fear that their leadership is suicidal and will lash out at the world if they are ever seriously told "no". Basically what they've accused Iran and North Korea of being for decades.

Also zero bans for any of the people who posted that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. Odd.

[Potato]

I tried to find the Nepenthe post I referenced before about how some people needed to learn not to speak growing up and couldn't. But I did dip into the post history so that means another episode of Nepenthe's Wise Wisdom.

First:

I've never been drunk or high off of weed either. I have been loopy off of Mucinex before. That was fun. It says don't break the tablet for a reason.

Wow, a teetotaler just like Trump!  

https://www.resetera.com/threads/timoth%C3%A9e-chalamet-and-selena-gomez-to-star-in-animated-alien-film-%E2%80%98not-alone%E2%80%99-from-illumination.1557121/#post-156813562

everything from the business side of illumination seems awesome. they're like the first big studio that ruthlessly mocked AI for example

I just wish their movies were good

The business side decided that American animators need not apply and outsourced the animation to make the films even cheaper. Capitalism is still capitalism'ing there.

Yikes, not wanting Global South animators to get jobs! Not a good look!

https://www.resetera.com/threads/tomb-raider-legacy-of-atlantis-is-made-with-the-help-of-genai-but-final-assets-replaced-or-refined-by-humans.1537990/page-10#post-155806945

When did pre-production/planning become so throwaway in people's eyes?

I don't think you could get the average person to give you a generalized breakdown on what it takes to produce any given piece of art, especially one as multidisciplinary as video games, nor do I think the average person really cares about the sheer talent necessary for pre-production. Fundamentally we are all isolated from the reality of how much labor and the qualitative nature that goes into the shit we make in the first place, and thus the reality of the matter doesn't commonly enter into people's minds. Consumers largely only care about the end result, which in turn is partly why AI was so enticing- you could "cut out all the tedious work."

but whose saying anyone is obligated to buy a game?

Several members have complained about people punishing the devs for protesting against the AI use. That's basically an argument that you should buy the game.

It's a shitty situation for all, but there's a specific hostility industry folk here have to face in every thread on the topic and sometimes its just a bummer that there's no voice trying to represent those members.

I've worked in the industry before, and by worked in the industry I mean I've actually done animation for video games without the use of AI, because I have the fucking skills to do it myself. I do not value the opinion of people, even those in the industry, who insist that there is meaningful nuance to be had here beyond giving grace to people who are forced to use it.

I can understand not using gen AI, but more and more companies will start to depend on it. If you vote with your wallet, you will eventually not be able to buy anything (every gaming hardware company is working on gen AI). Maybe just Nintendo first-party games, but even the Switch 2 uses an Nvidia chip which is a core part of gen AI industry. At that point you might as well bow out of current games and just play retro stuff.

Oh no, I might have to consume less.

I'm all for consuming less, but if you're not a hypocrite, you should only play consoles or on PCs built before gen AI was a thing for these hardware companies.

I'm following that trend already. Now what?

Ultimately, concerning one's self with the habits of consumers is meaningless when consumers are not actually driving the demand for AI within the arts- capitalist speculation and cost cutting is.

"You're a hypocrite if you don't buy x but buy z."

Capitalists are burning the world down. Fuck off.

For real. Like am I going to get lectured the next time I fill my car up with gas to get around my car-centric suburban hellscape?

People have somehow lived over three-plus decades of life and cannot muster any ability to actually analyze and discuss issues and concepts on a systemic and material level, even issues that have affected a hobby they have partaken in since children. It's fucking wild.

Nothing, if you are already doing that, it makes sense to me.

I just don't understand where people are drawing the line. Of course each person draws their own line and that's fine, but I'm curious how far each person is taking this.

Why does it matter where people are drawing their personal line when the use of generative AI within the arts is not driven by consumer sentiment or worker demand? Your question is meaningless, because again you aren't even engaging with the fundamental reality of generative AI underneath a Western neoliberal context.

since I'm not intelligent enough to figure it out myself, what do you mean by "engaging with the fundamental reality of generative AI underneath a Western neoliberal context."?

Most people in this topic are not understanding what generative AI is actually being used for and who it's for. It's not to help speed up workflows because we have data that says that there's a negligible to negative difference in pipelines that use generative AI because you have to go back and fix the shit. It's also not to meet a demand on part of consumers either because no one wants this fucking crap but capitalists and AI glazers have decided "fuck you, we're going to shove it down your throat anyway."

Generative AI is primarily being used to A.) Weaken labor power by being drummed up as an excuse to get rid of specialized workers, B.) Serve as a glorified pyramid scheme as companies buy each other's stocks and investments in the pursuit of the potential for a massive return in the financial markets, and C.) To bolster the surveillance state and propaganda arms for Western imperialism both at home and abroad, particularly in conflicts like the Palestinian genocide.

This shit is not some uWu innocent little tool to help oppressed artists unshackle themselves from the burden of making art. It is obviously a power play by capitalists on numerous fronts built on the biggest theft of intellectual property and labor in human history, likely outdoing the goddamn Transatlantic Slave Trade in terms of sheer value of labor stolen.

And y'all are sitting here like "Well, did you buy a graphics card? Because that's hypocritical." Like fuck off.

Is it wrong to try to understand how other people are thinking about an issue like this?

I'll admit the way I talked about hypocrisy sounded like I was attacking those who do buy gaming hardware and don't buy games made with gen AI, but I'm just trying to follow their line of thinking because I do not really understand it. Maybe the answer for them is, "yes, I did buy gaming hardware because it's the only way to play current games, but I draw the line at games made with gen AI because I still want to play modern games but won't support explicit gen AI use". It seems most folks fall into this camp, but there are people like you who are taking it further?

I'm saying that a lot of online conversations about political and economic subjects don't actually delve into any meaningful or productive subject matter. People's consumption habits don't really matter to the issue at hand because gen AI isn't directly correlated with direct demand and consumption habits. I'm not saying your question is ethically wrong; I'm saying it's facile.

Nothing we discuss on this forum will actually make a difference in the usage of gen AI and I'm not trying to get into the hairy mess that is gen AI.

I'm not arguing that a conversation can change the world. I'm arguing for a conversation that is meaningfully analytical.

Put developers forward, their talents and their skills, and use AI to complement it, not to replace it.

Do you not know how capitalism works?

This thread to me is half the forum populace arguing against a handful ignored users with like 100 posts each lol.

Y'all need to get better sussing out tech bro trolls and/or bots just "being curious".

 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-america-gave-up-on-its-own-history.1545601/#post-156195490

If people on "progressive forum" ResetEra still believe in the Year of our Lord 2026 that the country was actively founded on ideals of prosperity and democracy for all people, that the Founding Fathers legitimately wanted everyone to achieve "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" just by working a stable job or whatever, that our soft power was rendered for the sake of actually trying to help the Global South rather then entrench our economic might no matter the human toll, then that tells you to what extent people are still unable to come to grips with the problems of this country. And if you cannot come to grips with a problem, you cannot actually begin to suggest and implement meaningful solutions.

America has the potential to become a decent country, but not when its citizens still essentially believe in American imperialism.

...a final meaningful solution?

For example, one of my biggest pet peeves is when people describe the United States as the world's oldest democracy, despite the fact that the Voting Rights Act wasn't passed until 1965.

I mean, plenty of Indigenous and African groups practiced various forms of democratic and communal decision-making before the US was a concept germinating in the slavers' heads anyways. So ignoring that framing, Black people were voting well before the Civil Rights Act then anyways. Hell, we actually achieved an all-Black electorate in a small town in 1898...

Which was subsequently burned down by white people in a coup. (And you thought Jan 6 was unprecedented)

Just a little mistakey-wakey though. Totally a country with a good, moral head on its shoulders from the beginning.

I didn't know stating a fact was "GOP enabling" 😂

Guys, can you just ignore all the genocides we've directly committed or indirectly enabled? The midterms are coming up.

America was built on stolen land and used slavery to develop itself. Sure the slavery has ended but they're still frequently threatening to take land from others like Canada, Greenland etc. Very little of the formula has actually changed, just it's constructed in a manner that appears more agreeable at a surface level. You only need to look a little deeper to see the same cogs turning.

Did slavery end? News to me.

I'd agree fwiw, I just didn't wanna say it in case it comes off as offensive or reducing that horrific time in any way

On the contrary, I think it's pertinent to recognize that our prison population is basically just the continuance of slave labor (it's even still in the Constitution) as well as the fact that we still get a lot of our resources from slave labor off the continent.

The clothing you wear, the food you eat, the luxuries you enjoy are all built upon the suffering of the global south and other "impoverished" areas.

All that and Capitalism is just a different more sinister form of slavery in which the enslaved doesn't even realize they don't have any choice but to join in the system or suffer the consequences of non conformity.

That's a good point, and tbh by excluding the off continent slave labor it kinda wraps back around to reducing that instead. It's a topic I just try to be cautious on since I don't wanna accidentally word something wrong as I know it could be deeply hurtful.

One thing I've been thinking a lot on recently tbh is how slavery seems to be tied to the structure of society itself, whether via a political system or even things like religion it always comes back to the same spot, there needing to be an "other" to blame for the struggle of the lower class, which now takes form more as racism etc ofc, but largely because the off continent slavery is rarely seen in the way it would be were it on continent.

That it kinda gives the ruling class an easy escape, where instead we move in these circles of different prejudices being weaponised to keep people at the bottom, having up and down swings of them because the movement doesn't develop to actually forcing change as the effects are kept hidden from our eyes by design now.

Slavery in a more modern context comes down to the fact that labor needs to be done one way or another in order to support a society, and a really easy way to make sure labor is performed to excess- especially for the benefit of the ruling classes- is just to forcibly subjugate humans into performing it.

The racism and othering comes after the slavery is implemented, because you need a post hoc justification for the dehumanization necessary for slavery in order for the theft to continue and to stave off abolition. As I said in other threads, the designation of a "Black" race of people happened after their enslavement was observed in the Middle East, and subsequently the designation of a "white" race above the slave race was established in English law to break up Irish and African rebel coalitions in the Caribbean that had already formed.

As you note, these manufactured and perpetuated schisms are useful for continuing to hinder class consciousness of the lower classes because you can always utilize them against the ignorant folks to stir up some classic scapegoating. But there is another side of the coin to this, which is that these schisms must be balanced with some level of assimilation and performative addressing of grievance, because having a significant population of people who have no hope or prospects of a dignified life with access to books and guns is asking for war.

That is why the Civil Rights Act was passed, as well as other tokens like Black History Month and MLK Day. The political class decided it would be impossible to keep business moving if 13% of the population was ready and willing to do a Haiti. They didn't actually fix anything, of course; the money and land from the Slave Trade was already theirs and they certainly weren't going to give it back. They gave just enough for the people to decide that liberation didn't need to be in the cards.

And then they turned around, killed all the revolutionary figures like Fred Hampton, rewrote the history books, and covered the urban communities in drugs from which to pilfer more money in fines, more slave labor from jailings, and to break up more communities to continue rendering Black, Brown, and Indigenous communities as subservient in the War on Drugs.

This is why I personally don't believe or aspire to assimilation within this country as it currently stands. I don't get any joy or hope at the prospect of a Black President. Kendrick Lamar draping himself in the American flag during his Superbowl performance was not inspiring to me. It's a joke. America cannot be a good country until we understand that small concessions from the ruling class are really just the red flags that they are, until we decide that we need to engage in a lifelong struggle towards ending this imperial project and that the capitalists need to go.

Anything less than that is just an acquiescence to American imperialism, which is a trap. You get enough treats and benefits and comfort that you think "Well, it can't be all bad. What's the harm?" You think you're safe (as you correctly said, off-continent slavery is seen in a different light than it would be if it was happening here in the open.) Then you look at the Gaza genocide, unable to understand how the sheer bombardment of all the concrete is raising global temperatures that affect you, helping to train police that will come back around to kill your neighbors, causing global economic fallout fucking up your gas prices. What happens abroad comes home.

And yet people here still think our soft power and propaganda are good things! With everything happening that is a result of America imperialism, they still think imperialism can be salvaged for the benefit of humanity! Again, it shows you just how intellectually bereft the American populous is at properly diagnosing the sheer amount of barbarity underpinning this, to the point that I flip-flop back and forth on whether or not the solution for people who actually, genuinely, mean well is to just get out of America and join up with comrades elsewhere, because the propagandized brain-rot runs deep even in ostensibly "left-leaning" circles.

As much as I love watching the US realize they're awful, I wish y'all were doing it in a way that didn't affect other countries.

I'm not sure what people confronting the US's history and purpose has to do with what Trump is doing, nor am I impressed that folks in the West outside of America are only now caring about American imperialism because it's finally affecting them personally.

No, we've cared about it for a long time. Trump is just the latest in the "Hey, we're all losing because America is having yet another identity crisis while it tries to manipulate the world to like it more" events in the world.

The US is the kid who said something racist and got the class trip cancelled because of it.

The care was pretty facile. Plenty of Europeans, Canadians, and Australians have fought in our wars in the Middle East, glossed over our atrocities in the international criminal courts, and enjoyed the fruits of a powerful extractionist economic status quo. Minorities suffering under the wrath of American oppression within the borders were barely offered condolences. Hell, Canadians saw what was going on with Black Americans and still told those seeking asylum to kick rocks. Some fucking allies.

The entire West is ultimately culpable for the state of the world up until this point. Indeed, you characterize the status quo as a fun "class trip" that only America has ruined, ie, Western imperialism was great for you until America starts acting in its own geopolitical interests regardless of the ramifications for the current world order in doing so.

That's a big assumption. Alot of us have been watching helplessly as things have been getting worse over decades at this point.

If you're not going to give Americans the excuse of not doing enough to dispose of Trump, I am not impressed with acting like you've all been totally "helpless." The fact is, you've all benefitted from American imperialism, you've all had a stake in the previous maintenance of the world order at the expense of countless millions of lives, many of you have had a direct hand in colonizing Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East, and I'm not going to sit here and act like fucking Europeans and Canadians are victims on par with Iranians, Indians, or Brazilians. Frankly y'all are getting off lightly for the crimes your countries have committed throughout history and your inability to confront that is just as infuriating as the people here acting like America has always been some progressive project for the good of humanity that's just been merely derailed.

Enough.

It's true that we've benefited from American hegemony, and it's also true that we're only seeing a small taste of what a good portion of the world has suffered under said hegemony. I struggle with this alot if I'm being honest. But nobody is claiming that things are on par with Iran, or Gaza, or the global south. That's not true in any measure.
America has never been a progressive bastion, this isn't a derailment, this is the logical conclusion of the american project. Starting from the formation of the electoral college.
And yes, we are helpless. And it's partly our own fault for hiding behind and ceding to american power.

I'm sorry, but the neoliberal nationalistic fervor that has happened with Canadians and Europeans in the wake of Trump's second term has not only been nauseating to sit back and watch quietly, but also utterly insulting given the fact that the rearrangement of economic blocks is not going to even fully discount America due to the way the current economic system is set up in the first place. It's all fucking theater. Hell, your countries can't even be bothered to rule against Israel and some of you are jailing Pro-Palestinian protestors, literally siding with imperialism yet again because it benefits you. But you're totally anti-American. Give me a break.

No one in the West is helpless to fight back against imperialism given the high standard of living and access to human needs and technology enjoyed by those in the imperial core. Lost and uneducated, perhaps, but that's a problem that can be solved. But helpless? Absolutely not. You don't get to have that out from your responsibilities no more than Americans do.

We had an economic gun pointed at our heads telling us to jump in to your oil fights.

Aww, poor little Westerner. Your precious economy would've suffered because your world leaders decided it would be a great idea to have the dollar as the reserve currency in the aftermath of WWII since the Atlantic Ocean buffered the US against most of the damage of the fighting and thus our economy wasn't tanked to shit. We HAVE to go in and kill those Iraqis and Libyans! We're hostages too! What about us?!

Meanwhile, people in Latin America, Africa, Asia, the Middle East were legitimately fighting against worse odds, worse economic conditions, with less access to material needs and supplies, and sometimes ultimately rebuking their oppressors to achieve actual liberation. Like goddamn, the Vietnamese were undergoing a famine and still kicked out the Americans and the French.

Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for you! Y'all took a deal with the Devil because you all also benefitted from the blood running in the streets, and now that the deal is going sour I'm supposed to care now? Colonizers of a feather flock together; some of y'all are no less brainwashed than the Americans you make fun of.

*American* imperialism is the topic. We can't do anything about that. Obviously we can make changes domestically and I will consistently vote for the person who has this in their platform, but this isn't about that - this is about your disdain for non-americans and our reactions for having the gun pointed in our direction. And it's a big gun.
And yes the Carney push to diversify is still making moves in the same rotten system, one that needs to be torn down, no argument from me.

I agree with you that the topic is about American imperialism from a historical lens, and I've been quite happy to discuss that as you can clearly see from my posts in the beginning of the thread.

So I don't know why another Westerner came into the topic to derail about how much they're upset that Trump is fucking over their precious imperial economy other than to get in another useless potshot at America from a glass house.

I also have no disdain for non-Americans as a principle. I have a disdain for Western imperialists no matter where they live. Turns out a lot of you all subscribe to Western imperialism when it suits you. If you didn't want this argument, y'all should've stayed out of it and just let the Americans squabble; pop some popcorn and just point and laugh. But now that the Europeans and Canadians wanna act like they had nothing to do with this shit, that they're hapless victims, I'm going to happily remind you that that's a fucking lie.

Aren't you American, you benefited from the same situations that I did. Your criticisms aren't any more or less valid than mine because we've both lived in societies that have benefited from the wests colonization and genocides for expansion and power.

The difference between you and me is that I've been sounding the alarm against American imperialism for years off and online before it finally came back to bite American allies in the ass. I was able to understand that just because my economy was stable, just because I have access to the benefits of imperial standards of living, didn't mean this was a good thing for other people, that other people's lives mattered. Half of y'all only came out of the woodwork to play-act at being anti-American when Trump got back into office a second time and tanked your shit, and I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the fact that lessons have still not been learned that this is not a situation of individual actors and isolated countries who somehow have no hand in what is going on. We are all in this shit together, and all Western countries are culpable for the myriad of decision-making and happy accidents that led us to this moment today. We have a duty as human beings to act in the best regards of the most vulnerable, to support them unconditionally, not just when we finally perceive the negative effects to ourselves. Again, y'all are getting only a taste of what you actually deserve.

I've been doing that for years offline and online too! You're not special lol. Just because you can't perceive people in other western nations protesting American/Western imperialism doesn't mean you can just make the assumption that nobody other than Americans do it. You're only seeing it now and assuming that we're only acting on it now, because your country is incredibly isolationist. I'm sick of Americans thinking they're exceptional in doing literally anything, when we've been begging you all to do something, anything, for a very long time. You're only seeing in now, because more of you are considering doing something.

We're absolutely in it together, you're right. But you have this way of going, where if anyone complains about anything that isn't in your immediate priority list, they're lesser than you, and that's not needed. Yeah I'm going to complain that a War that doesn't involve my country puppeted by a country that funds your country is impacting my cost of living. I'm also protesting my government constantly to not capitulate to yours and to work towards a better future, and not do the bullshit they're trying to do because they got a majority because we didn't want to make the same mistake your country made.

Canada only starting "putting their elbows up" when Trump started talking smack about annexation; before then them elbows were squarely resting at the table of Western economic imperialism. Spare me this revisionist notion that pockets of protest inside the West means the West has somehow been a bastion of anti-imperialism. You are not special either and are not an act to follow.

And my problem isn't that you are complaining about something that isn't in my list of priorities, as if you and I have talked long enough to know what my political priorities are. My problem is Canadians and Europeans suddenly play acting at being staunch victims of American imperialism when they are not only some of the biggest benefactors and participants of it but, in Europe's case specifically, are the reason America even fucking exists to begin with. My people have suffered because of all of your fucking countries and thus I'm not interested in entertaining your meager grievances as a Canadian.

One common theme when you read about the american viewpoint of the US-Canadian relationship disintegrating is the focus on the economics of it. The trade wars and tarrifs. Ask any Canadian about it, and the main answer is the annexation. It's not economic mainly, it's the threats to our safety and well being.

Annexation is fundamentally an act in defense of a nation's economic interests. The fact that this is not understood still means lessons haven't been learned.

I also don't see where you are drawing this conclusion that people on this site are acting like their nation had nothing to do with western imperialism, this is a narrative in your head. It doesn't make it true.
But please, tell canadians who were born into this era that we deserve to be frightened about dying to the US military and it's our fault. Amazing stuff.

My contention is that significant backlash to America only happened when America began acting recklessly in its fascistic self-interests which in turn threatened the economic sovereignty of Western nations. Fucking over the African continent though? Crickets.

And I'm really, really sorry you are experiencing fear of America. I as a Black person who's had a cop roll up to me with their finger already on the trigger several times at basic traffic stops have no idea what it's like to fear the American state! None whatsoever!

You never have to worry about another country invading you if you make the wrong choice.

Lol my people have already been thoroughly colonized and brutalized by America and Canada has done very little to nothing to facilitate attempts at liberation! But yes, continue acting like your experience is unique.

A conversation between an american and anyone else has an intrinsic power imbalance. Do you recognize that?
I understand you're angry, and you should be. But this ain't it.

You understand I'm angry, give credence that I should be angry at the West (legitimately kind of you), and yet still want to split hairs over meaningless power differentials between conversationalists living in different Western imperial nations when we're all complicit in shit like Gaza where rats are eating starving children in poisonous camps that could be bombed at any moment.

Y'all aren't serious.

Kept slavery around because it made people a lot of money. Literally inspired Hitler. Nuked Japan because they didn't want the USSR to have a foothold in Japan. Destroyed foreign powers because people with money told them to. Literally helping conduct another Holocaust. But it a work-in-progress. A shitty work-in-progress but a work-in-progress nonetheless.

I mean, a work in progress towards that specifically? Because if we're talking about being an empire based on capitalism and white supremacy, the mission was accomplished centuries ago. Right now it's about trying to maintain the momentum and advantageous economic foothold, hence punishing Venezuela by kidnapping their President (remember when that happened?), the war in Iran, the speed run of Gaza, etc.

To be clear there really wasn't much of a choice in the Breton woods conference and the Nixon admins nonsense. Hell france even sent a battleship to get its gold back. But the US had all the cards there to force the rest of the world off the gold standard and on to the dollar as reserve.

I know the history; I brought it up. My point was that I do not sympathize with people in Western countries suddenly acting like colonized peoples now that Trump is tanking traditional allyships and being a fascist when actual colonized peoples have been fighting true Western barbarism for far longer and in far worse material and economic conditions than most people comfortably reading this forum will ever experience. The people pissed off at me probably have property on top of Native burial grounds or their countries have corporate settlements in Africa. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend here.

Furthermore, it's not like any potentially rearranged allyships are going to result in anything good for actual colonized peoples, because we still live in a capitalist society which necessitates the continued economic oppression and resource extraction on part of the nations responsible for it. Ultimately the Canadian nationalism and European chauvanism masquerading as actual anti-imperialism in the wake of Trump's second term is an utter charade and an insult to the history of anti-imperialism and the peoples who are fighting to achieve it, and I will forever call it as such.

Y'ALL 👏 AREN'T 👏 SERIOUS 👏

Indeed.