Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[clockwork5]

AKA "I want other people's livelihoods to be disrupted by AI, not miiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnneeeeeee".

She's got a point though...

no, the broader read on this is "I want AI to do [hard things I don't want to do that I might otherwise have to pay for], not [things I am already skilled at]"

for example, "I want AI to repair my furnace and rotate my tires, not do art"

it's fundamentally selfish and dismissive of the impact in other industries, "that guy should be out of a job, not me"

sorry, it turns out manipulating bytes and pixels is very easy for computers to do, you don't get to choose what problems are solved first

This quote also reinforces the narrative that AI can only take on creative tasks and is useless when faced with tedious problems. Which couldn’t be further from the truth. 

No citation needed, if she can’t figure it out that’s on her.

[Boredfrom]

 

I have never once said "but not me"

if my job becomes redundant, oh well, my employer is not a charity, I'm not going to sit back and demand that they make bad financial decisions on my behalf

these people act like they should be treated so special when this is just technology finally rolling around to them, like translators, horse breeders, coal miners etc

Yeah, but you also should remember that is you.  Not everyone will react with the same or having the same convictions about the technology or being shut up by being called Luddites.

Other people will think you are not exactly empathetic or is easy to you to say (independently of how secure you job is). 

Just pointing this out, not because I cannot see your point about it, but how you can come across (even if you are just being blunt but fair).

[AldusMoneyPenny]

AKA "I want other people's livelihoods to be disrupted by AI, not miiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnneeeeeee".

She's got a point though...

no, the broader read on this is "I want AI to do [hard things I don't want to do that I might otherwise have to pay for], not [things I am already skilled at]"

for example, "I want AI to repair my furnace and rotate my tires, not do art"

it's fundamentally selfish and dismissive of the impact in other industries, "that guy should be out of a job, not me"

sorry, it turns out manipulating bytes and pixels is very easy for computers to do, you don't get to choose what problems are solved first

It doesn't say that at all, though. It's saying AI should do the menial tasks so we can concentrate on stuff that's actually stimulating. And I'm all for that. Not seeing the issue. She didn't say "so I don't have to pay the fucking plumber."

[Uncle]

she's literally doing the classic era "no, not like that"  

"it's different when it applies to me and the stuff I like, this should only apply to lesser people"

It doesn't say that at all, though. It's saying AI should do the menial tasks so we can concentrate on stuff that's actually stimulating. And I'm all for that. Not seeing the issue. She didn't say "so I don't have to pay the fucking plumber."

except millions of people are finding AI "actually stimulating," it's just another tool in the toolbox

like complaining because photoshop has an undo button, "um wow some of us actually had to learn to fix our own mistakes, if you don't enjoy the process then maybe you don't belong in art"

the only work it's flat out replacing IS menial tasks like creating the background for corporate pamphlet #17 or shoring up the instructions on how to mount your new smoke alarm

no one is getting the next great american novel out of chatgpt, but they ARE getting a dozen plot thread ideas to jumpstart them out of writer's block, getting you past the annoying parts of creation and back to the stimulating ones

[Boredfrom]

[Uncle]

use your mouth words to express yourself

[Boredfrom]

use your mouth words to express yourself

You are saying that they sound like ERA while being very ERA esque. 

AI can be definitely a cool tool, not gonna lie. I just don’t vibe in how dismissive of other concerns people are here, specially when we are admitting that is going to affect livelihood of other people (but art is “lesser” than manial work to some  ).

[Hap Shaughnessy]

Edit: Beaten

https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-big-is-yours-pt2-yes-what-you-think.1020306/

User banned (1 week): creating a nsfw thread

Inspired by the TV size poll because why not? lol So come on ERA, be honest and let's see what we're collectively packing!

[benji]

I just don’t vibe in how dismissive of other concerns people are here

Some concerns are more valid than others.

[Polident]

What’s confusing is dishwashing and laundry machines exist, and have for a long time. As I was shopping for a laundry unit, some have slots to pre-measure and disperse detergent and softener by load weight. These are pre “AI” as it has become known.

What do they want AI to do in this scenario? Is five minutes of taking the clothes in and out the machine too much work?

[Uncle]

You are saying that they sound like ERA while being very ERA esque.

we've been over this

you define era-like behavior extremely broadly, like "oh they sometimes argue in favor of things, but look now here you are arguing in favor of something yourself, HMMMM"

[Uncle]

I just don’t vibe in how dismissive of other concerns people are here

Some concerns are more valid than others.

[Boredfrom]

You are saying that they sound like ERA while being very ERA esque.

we've been over this

you define era-like behavior extremely broadly, like "oh they sometimes argue in favor of things, but look now here you are arguing in favor of something yourself, HMMMM"

Fair enough.

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

I think all AI is bad. You know what? I think all robots are bad. 

Human jobs for humans! Even scrubbing toilets and washing floors. Robots can only take over jobs once we get UBI.

[Boredfrom]

So one cool use of Ai translators is helping people with small fan projects like fan translating obscure RPG Dreamcast games (in helping to construct sentences from Japanese to English). Mainly because is not done as professional but as fan trying to share something he loves to a wider audience:



Pretty much no using as a replacement but as a tool to help someone that is doing something to pass time and give attention to an obscure game.

[Polident]

I’ll admit to being a full blown luddite with those robot vacuums.

One, because vacuuming isn’t very time consuming or difficult. And two, I know they contain semtex.

[Potato]

One thing that confuses me about the States is the party registration system for voting. Here in Canada as long as you are eligible to vote, you get a paper with multiple choices and pick one to cast your vote for. They never ask which political party you are in support of before or after voting.

I wish more people would turn out to vote. Turnout has been rather poor for the past decade here, both at the federal and provincial levels.

I am in favour of our system of both compulsory voting and preferential voting. Makes sure everyone takes at least a passing interest and forces the parties to pay attention to the whole electorate. The preferential voting also gives the independents and minor parties a chance to get up.

[benji]

Nah, you shouldn't face prison for refusing to participate in something.

[benji]

Easily explained by bad luck and systemic issues:

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

Easily explained by bad luck and systemic issues:

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

So it's not his fault, it's the work environment? 

[benji]

So it's not his fault, it's the work environment? 

No, the whole environment of capitalism, colonialism and white supremacy that is a living hell:

Errejón did not mention the accusations and suggested his “mistakes” were down to working in the “neo-liberal” environment of politics, which he said “generates a toxic subjectivity, which, in the case of men, is multiplied by patriarchy”.

[benji]

In a 2013 interview to Venezuelan newspaper Correo del Orinoco, Errejón got to the point of stating that the lines for food Venezuelans experienced for hours were "because they have more money to consume more" and that there was a "culture of queues" because Venezuelans supposedly enjoyed socialising.

[Polident]

Easily explained by bad luck and systemic issues:

It’s the guys you least expect!

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

I don't understand how it's not his fault and instead neoliberals. 

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

RE isn't even talking about those Michigan Muslims supporting Trump

https://www.resetera.com/threads/us-politics-ot-4-dont-complain-do-something.962805/page-1018#post-130715970

From earlier today
Harris is sticking with Biden, leaving room for Trump to promise whatever they want to hear. Absolute failure on the part of the Harris campaign.

This is fucking stupid. Trump said Biden's problem was he's holding Bibi back - that he's not being allowed to do enough genocide. Trump's vision is wiping out Gaza so Jared can build hotels. These people are fucking braindead.

They may not care what happens in that part of the world and only be concerned about domestic issues. I know Muslim ban, but they think im already here so its ok. There are other policies that Trump and the GOP can offer them can sway their vote, especially if they are more religious. It's awful but anti trans, anti gay, no abortion policies can swing their votes.

It's entirely this. The attitude of "Fuck you, I got mine".

Sucks to see some of the more religious people being transphoic, homophobic and pro-life who care more about these issues due to a book.

If we're talking religious Muslims, pro-life is certainly not a factor for them. That'd really only be a hardcore religious American Christian thing. Most of them tend to be well educated so are at least fine with abortion when it comes to saving the life of the mother or if the fetus is non–viable

[Boredfrom]

Kind of off topic: Man, the sub plot of Robocop 2 about the mayor trying to sell the city to drug lords hits close to home.  

And TV Tropes says the mayor had a point.  

That’s all, I just watched to play Rogue City.

[Gamegirl Nostalgia]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/us-politics-ot-4-dont-complain-do-something.962805/page-1004#post-130697226

I have a decent amount of people here muted, makes things much easier for my sanity. Usually they are annoying doomers. Few that said they won't vote I also added, whose opinion I no longer care about.

I honestly think Kamala has it and will win. If she somehow doesn't and Trump wins, what's the point in being worried to death now? That isn't anything we can do to change the outcome.

The best we can do with 10 days left is to vote, encourage all our friends and family to vote.

Based.

[benji]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/it-blows-my-mind-how-dangerous-cars-really-are-sometimes.1020195/

If you worked in a factory and a part of that factory's design involved 2 tonnes of metal regularly passing by you at 50mph with no barriers, that factory would get shut down for gross danger. It really is crazy how normalised cars are, especially in cities.One of those things that (hopefully) will be looked back in the future as unbelievably crazy. Like we do with I dunno, human sacrifice.

*shrug* "we gotta drop 20 children into the volcano or the crops won't grow. sorry, that's just the way it is"

*shrug* "we gotta let 2 tonnes of metal zip around next to people walking. sorry, no other way to do it"

It is really mindblowing. Such a strange thing that we view as completely normal.

It's the second worst thing on this planet after people

I always say I think getting a private car license should only be given if you can prove you absolutely need it, like people who have have medical or physical limitations that make having a car absolutely necessary etc.

This is easy to say if you live in a walkable city or a country with public transportation. Where I live in Florida, it is impossible to get anywhere without a car. It sucks.

Well, once most people cannot use cars, all cities and transport between them will have to accommodate and re-structure themselves around other modes of transport... If you think it sucks, forcing everyone around you to not have a car is a good way to make that change!

I wouldn't ban cars, but I would advocate for massively developing public transport all over, and incentivising it's use.

I would ban cars from city centres, just allowing delivery vehicles, emergency vehicles, regulated taxis, and people with mobility impairments. Then I'd build car parks with mass transit systems adjacent outside the area where cars are banned.

Until we will be able to rethink and restructure the transportation system and totally redesign the cities we will be stuck with what we've got. And it won't happen soon. People don't care as long as they can do what they've always done and they definitely like it. Complacency and the way people defend cars is unbelievable.

Obligatory "fuck cars" post here.

Yes they're incredibly dangerous, but at least they're also really expensive and a pain to maintain.

Probably one of the stupidest things we all do

The normalization of automobiles was one of the biggest tech-related blunders of the 20th century. Even worse was how we altered our approach to city planning. Many existing cities had huge portions bulldozed to make way for freeways and gigantic parking lots. Our cities also sprawled outward, with so-called exclusionary zoning laws in newer developments mandating low-density neighborhoods consisting entirely of single-family homes, with businesses legally separated and place on large four-lane "stroads" that try to be a cross between a highways and a local street but fails to be either.

Our approach to city planning and transportation policy in the 20th century is one of the all-time biggest policy failures, resulting in tens of thousands of deaths, hundreds of thousands of injuries, untold millions of tons of CO2 being spewed into the atmosphere. And there's a whole host of other issues connected to car-dependent cities beyond deaths & injuries from traffic collisions and the degradation of our environment. Oil dependency, gasoline price worries, urban sprawl and bad land use, traffic congestion, unaffordable housing, income inequality, municipal debt (car infrastructure is insanely expensive, esp. in a sprawling suburban-style city), personal debt (cars are huge money sinks), and other public health issues like stress and lack of exercise.

How would you walk and get 40 pounds of cat litter and 24+ cans of cat food from your grocery store plus all your groceries with no car, up a steep hill 2 miles in the winter to your house? That is what I would have to do in order to not drive my car to a grocery store.

Would I also walk to the closest Walmart? According to my GPS it would take me 3 hours and 6 minuets one way to walk there, so I could spend almost 6-7 hours walking just because I need to go to Walmart? Then I should walk home with my 40 pounds of cat litter or maybe a 50 pound bag of dog food?

This is a good example of how normalized "car-brain" is in North America. So many of us have never known anything other than hopping into a car (or, increasingly, a truck or SUV) and driving all the way from our suburban subdivision to some big box store like Costco or Walmart to stock up with a week or two of groceries and other supplies. It never occurs to us that in many cities with good urban fabric that people just walk to a store that's within a reasonable walking distance and bring back what they can carry, or they might take a cargo bike or something. And if they really need something big, they can just have it delivered or rent a van to do it themselves. Many older cities still retain a design that was built at a human scale, with residential & commercial properties intermixed (often in the same building).

The point of changing our policies regarding city planning and transportation policy is to make it to where there's alternatives to driving everywhere, to where our cities stop being the sprawling suburbia we're accustomed to and start looking more like proper cities that existed before cars and that weren't demolished by local governments to force car use. It shouldn't take an hour to walk to the supermarket like it is here. Hell, we ought to have more than just huge supermarkets, big boxes, & strip malls. A sanely-built city would have plentiful local neighborhood grocers within walking distance of most residences instead of just having a handful of giant supermarkets out on the big arterial stroad. But current laws in most American cities make it flat-out illegal to have small grocery stores, local restaurants, or any sort of business within a neighborhood.

If we're going to solve the problem of deaths, injuries, & pollution from cars, we're going to have to reduce and eventually eliminate car dependency. If we're going to do that, we need to change our zoning laws to that our built environment allows for denser mixed-use development instead of the standard suburban development plan that's dominated for the past 70 years, and also redesign our streets to make them safer. Denser mixed-used developments are conducive to giving people alternatives to driving. There's still some cities out there where many if not most of the residents walk, bike, or take transit, and that's because the design of the city makes those viable choices. Suburbia was a mistake. It was a comforting, idealized veneer hiding a fundamentally unjust and unsound system. We were sold a lie wrapped in white picket fences and open roads, all brought to you by General Motors, Big Oil, and American Racism.

If you want to keep a system where you have to drive to Costco so you can stock up on two weeks worth of provisions for your family & pets, then you want to keep a system where tens of thousands of deaths, hundreds of thousands of serious injuries, and the continued pollution of our environment through emissions and brake & tire particulates are just the cost of doing business. Or you can argue for something better so we can fix the problem. But you can't have safe streets and have a system where everybody has to drive everywhere just to function in day to day life.

We can either choose the illusion of convenience and freedom that car-dependent cities offer, or we can choose to change our built environment in a way that actually makes people's lives better, but we can't have both. The two are mutually exclusive.

If we do choose to make things better, it won't be quick, it won't be easy, and it won't be convenient (oh, the horror), but once we're on the other side of it and everything is all said and done, we won't want to go back. We all know deep down that driving sucks, especially when everyone else is out driving.

people are doing ok, it is capitalism that fucks us up ... pretty much all your problems you have with people don't exist in originary people with minimal contact to external world.

As I kid, I never understood how any rando could drive.

It seemed so incredibly dangerous, but everyone did it so casually that I figured it'll make sense when I'm older.

But nah, the only part that makes sense now is that people don't really think about it (hell, they're probably texting behind the wheel).

I never learned to drive because I'm too intimidated by the whole thing. it really is insanely dangerous when you think about it compared to any other daily activity that the average human performs.

It's actually incredible how cars absolutely ruined our cities and made the environment we live in dangerous, unwelcoming and isolating. Like, at some point that getting around a bit faster was more important than you know, being able to get around on your own two feet and to be able to explore and experience the city you live in. We choice a violence in our day to day lives that is just so normalised that it's actually unsettling.

I actually think the car has a pretty good claim to being the most destructive invention of all time. It destroyed our air quality, helped cause climate change, millions killed and maimed every year, leaded petrol frying people's brains, microplastics from tyres, wars over oil, demolishing communities for freeways, the list goes on.

Cars are not just dangerous, the car lobby also basically killed any shot at effective public transportation in much of the US.

I'd just like to say that cities were torn and rebuilt for cars for the last couple of decades in North America. So it is not surprising to me that there are folks like you guys who seem to be completely unable to imagine what non-car dependent places could look like. In that world, you will likely live closer to your work and other daily destinations. You can walk your kids to school. You could have safe protected bike paths that allow both you and your kids a lot of freedom riding around town. You can probably take HSR to where your parents live that's in another town over. I'm not sure where your indignation is coming from other than a lack of imagination.

  as far as the eye can see

[Boredfrom]

Unintentionally Sympathetic: Mayor Kuzak is presented in a mocking fashion as an ineffectual liberal politician out of touch with the realities of his office. However, everything he says about OCP's Evil Plan is 100% correct and he's absolutely right to be furious with them.

He is also willing to sell the city to a drug lord psychopath child, because we know Drug Lords only business are illegal drugs and are going to be legit and nice if pleased and we ignore their misdeeds.   

Then again, the OCP are using Nazi imagery for some reason.   Thanks, Frank Miller. (I know his script was gutted but still… that was so on the nose that I assume it was his idea).

The film is not good, but kind of disturbing and funny how the NeoLiberal Nazi Corpo Vs clueless leftist was already trucking in the 80’s