Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[Venice]

PlanetSmasher weighs in on the news Disney is creating an AI task force to cut costs:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/reuters-disney-creates-task-force-to-explore-ai-and-cut-costs-currently-has-11-roles-open-that-are-ai-related.751171/



Sounds like it would be a much more entertaining movie than anything you learned in comedy school 

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

On a side note, why is  PlanetSmasher even more angry than usual? 

[Greatness Gone]

"It's not a fetish."

[benji]

PlanetSmasher weighs in on the news Disney is creating an AI task force to cut costs:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/reuters-disney-creates-task-force-to-explore-ai-and-cut-costs-currently-has-11-roles-open-that-are-ai-related.751171/

Simpleton with no imagination and 100K posts on ResetERA.com attacks another for being a "miserable fuck" having "never contributed anything of worth to society" even as he provides their most beloved corporation with immense value.

[Potato]

PlanetSmasher weighs in on the news Disney is creating an AI task force to cut costs:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/reuters-disney-creates-task-force-to-explore-ai-and-cut-costs-currently-has-11-roles-open-that-are-ai-related.751171/



Sounds like it would be a much more entertaining movie than anything you learned in comedy school 

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

On a side note, why is  PlanetSmasher even more angry than usual? 

He/they finally achieved trans ascendancy by manifesting  male menstruation.

[Snoopy]

It's because he can't get hired even during a writer's strike

[benji]

This is really reductionist, we do have many positive
examples of masculinity currently. Terry Crews, Sam Smith, Harry Styles, Elliot Page, ect.

[benji]

It's too late, the chuds won

I think this is only a little reductive, but not by much.

I don't know, how any real headway gets made on this topic in online spaces because again, online spaces are tainted by default. They're inherently havens of toxic masculinity and I don't know how you can make any real progress on this topic when basically every aspect of this arena was created by insecure toxic men, to specifically benefit these insecure toxic men when they feel like behaving in destructive, ugly, abusive ways that they only really ever had permission to indulge in the spaces they made for themselves, and the behaviors they modeled and codified here.

It's easy in retrospect to see how solidly the game was rigged against progress being made on this front (that it is, in fact, some degree of gameplay in the first place is a huge problem, the automatic and accepted gamification of all this human interaction certainly isn't pointing the way towards a better future) but I simply don't know how you can draw up a map out of this wilderness when so much of this wilderness is going through and incorporating the now commodified and institutional toxic masculinity specific to online interactions

It was really only a matter of time before the indoctrination of basically every disaffected male online was seriously pursued by right-wing grifters and "manosphere" types because the internet as we recognize it today was essentially built for this. It was built to promote and enable this. To forgive and engender this. I don't think you can counteract the negative effects here at all. There's no real path forward that doesn't immediately dead-end at toxic expressions and/or exaltations of competition and supremacy (even in positive examples!) It's built into so much of what makes everything online go.

The decisions made early on to buy into the naive and frankly stupid idea of what the internet could be, and to more or less cede all authority and regulation to nobody, was not just a massive mistake, but it ensured this was always going to work out this way. And I don't know how you address or significantly counteract what's happening when the most commonly used communication tool between people is corporate-owned, mostly unregulated, and monetized so thoroughly that there is almost zero incentive - financial or otherwise - to pursue different modes of thought or consideration beyond the ones that already reward the inherently toxic modes we were used to even before we told everyone (and ourselves) you could make money applying them to your own brand exercises.

If only we had given authority to the white supremacist toxic patriarchy to control what's allowed to be said online.

[benji]

Yeah, it’s something I think about all the time in the work that I do (as is the case for you).

It’s easy to feel hopeless because there don’t seem to be any solutions, but that statement itself might be part of the problem. We have a tendency on the left to not find questions valid until we can simultaneously provide answers. We don’t really know what positive masculinity looks like, and so we don’t explore masculinity in a modern context. This lack of exploration, of curiosity even, constrains our takes on boyhood/manhood/masculinity to being, and remaining, incredibly surface level. And this might be more acceptable when it comes to adults — where there’s a higher level of accepting accountability required; but the ground here changes entirely when we consider young boys, which is where most of the problems take root.

What is masculinity?

What defines masculinity as a role?

We often define masculinity in “counter” to femininity; but, without that, what is it? For a cis and/or heterosexual masculine people, take away your ideas of “femininity” — take away the expectation to desire, attract, attain, malign, dominate, and control femininity/women…what’s left? What do you have? What is your sense of self?

I think about this all the time.

(stealing this from a colleague)

I’m going to post a statement, and I’d like everyone who reads it to think on how the statement hits them. What their reaction is to it:

Being a young boy is an incredibly traumatic experience.

Your post gives me a lot to think about because I think you’re right. I think about how it applies to me, being Queer, and Femme, and Black, and also overflowing with hard-won confidence. I’ve fully entered the “Can’t nobody tell me shit about me” stage of my life, but it’s not a brand of confidence that Traditional Manhood💪🏾 would be interested in selling, that’s for sure!

I think about where that confidence came from, and I have to say it started young. In much the same way you say you built your confidence by being independent of masculine expectations; I roughly built my confidence by being largely excluded from it.

Taking it back to my earlier statement, “Being a young boy is an inherently traumatic experience”…I remember that small window of time when I was a young boy just like other young boys. And I remember the ways that sexuality was thrust upon us, and “maturity” was thrust upon us, and violence was thrust upon us, and emotional neglect was thrust upon us. I remember all the ways in which traits that actually amount to a well-rounded human being were presented to us as symptoms of weakness. I remember how uncomfortable and traumatic this was, not just for me but all the boys around me. And I remember the moment when my discomfort became a unique thing, because I wasn’t like the other boys around me. I remember exactly when boys I grew up with began to mock me, when the adult men I admired began to look at me funny.

With no masculine role models that made feel accepted, and no Queer role models I could see a future me in at the time, I was largely left to forge my own way to confidence. But it wasn’t really by choice, not when I was that young. Sometimes I do wonder how I might have turn out if I weren’t essentially cast out of the in-group. Heck, I’ve dated some men who weren’t.

This is largely incoherent…but you asked for my opinion!

Also, I’m seeing a lot of references to Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate in this thread…

But for the Black/PoC here’s a name that might be more relevant and no less deserving of slander:

Kevin Samuels (Rest in Piss)

The thing is I truly believe that role models don’t create a demand; they arise from a demand.

And the mirror we all have to look into reflects the possibility that the lack of models of positive masculinity can be the result in our reluctance to even find value in the idea.

The only thing I would push back on a little bit here is that this framing kind of lets society off the hook.

Young boys aren’t born into this world inherently wanting girls, power and money. Outside of some basic biological processes and urges, boys are just born.

Rather, I think it is that society tells boys what they should want. And then tells them that they should want those things because they are entitled to them. And sometimes it seems like the only people willing to acknowledge this are the same people who want to take advantage of it. Meanwhile, the rest of us are comfortable to foster (or simply ignore) behaviors in young boys that will blossom into negative, harmful and toxic traits when they become adults. Or we don’t provide solutions, just proclamations (“Why can’t you just be a nice person?”).

I agree with this, which is why when I think about this question of positive masculinity I try to avoid the trap of grasping at what I perceive to be specific positive “masculine” traits. Not just because a lot of those traits aren’t inherently masculine (I was raised by a family of women who could protect and provide for themselves), but because I think this drive to find what “The Masculine Traits” are contributes to the problem as I see it: that we don’t allow boys to self-discover and self-actualize at all. We’re still kind of falling into this framework of thinking that there’s a set of positive masculine traits that we can substitute for the toxic masculinity that boys are inundated by. It feels like we’re still telling boys that “Being a man is THIS,” when really we should be giving boys the emotional and expressive toolkit to define for themselves what their relationship to masculinity (and femininity) is.

As for boys that have already bought into this, to me that’s the rub. I still don’t think that we as a society have truly embraced the idea that if we want better and more emotionally developed men, if we want a society more better equipped to support that, and if we want a healthier idea of “masculinity” as it exists across the gender spectrum, we have to start younger.

Because as I get older, and have more friends with kids, the more I wish I could say that the “boys will be boys” mentality existed only on the right. Even on the left we have difficulty challenging the ways we approach boyhood, thinking that the positive traits are just going to somehow manifest on their own when the kids are older, and so we’ll just deal with it then.

What a FAT weirdo creep.

[Snoopy]

Basically he's become a fat sassy bitch is what he's saying

[HaughtyFrank]

This is really reductionist, we do have many positive
examples of masculinity currently. Terry Crews, Sam Smith, Harry Styles, Elliot Page, ect.

Get banned for accidentally calling Ezra Miller he. Don't get banned for calling non-binary Sam Smith a role model for masculinity

[Venice]

This is really reductionist, we do have many positive
examples of masculinity currently. Terry Crews, Sam Smith, Harry Styles, Elliot Page, ect.

Sam Smith, "positive masculinity"



Harry Styles, "positive masculinity"



Elliot Page, "positive masculinity"

[benji]

What do you guys think those dudes represent more of, the positivity or the masculinity? Honestly, I can't decide.

[Potato]

The whole discussion is tainted by its conceit that all men are lost.

All men who use progressive politics to define their personalities* are lost, not all men.

Progressive politics has redefined traditional masculinity into something evil, something to be avoided at all costs. To be masculine (emotionally stable, breadwinner, protector) is to be wrong.

People (not defined by left and right politics) who don't subscribe to the feminisation of masculinity are not lost. They are still leading happy, fulfilling lives with healthy relationships with both other men and women.

Spoiler: * (click to show)(click to hide)

This includes those on the left and right. Plenty on the right allow progressive politics to define their personalities too.

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

Lol

Loser

[Chumbawumbafan69]

1691506028[/url]']

For trans folks, obviously things are very different. Wanting to be seen as our preferred gender identity is kind of central to us, so we're going to chase some of those physical and mental traits. Or in my case, want to shed a chunk of my masculine traits and gain a bunch of feminine traits to attain androgyny.

But cis people? Yeah, don't chase that crap. Do what feels natural to you. Don't worry about whether you are being a good 'man' or 'woman'. Be the best version of yourself whether that lines up with 100% of the stereotypes for your gender.

Doesn’t matter if it’s watching objectionable content, jerking off to video games or indulging in masculine traits. It’s wrong when they do it but great when we do it.

[FUME5]

"We dont really know what positive masculinity looks like"

[Polident]

It’s like telling kids that broccoli taste like chocolate ice cream. Gotta find the fun and healthy balance. 

My recommendation is to promote Dredd 2012. Break down the facts. Dredd respects his lady boss. He doesn’t trauma dump or mansplain when asked about his job. He doesn’t discriminate against race or sex when killing criminals. He actively supports his young female partner without infantilizing her or having a male savior complex. He’s secure enough with his sexuality to wear a full leather outfit.



Immediately calls for paramedics to help wounded. Uses his words to deescalate the situation. Saves latinx woman from white male skinhead by melting his skull.

[benji]

My two favorite of his psuedophilosophical statements were in the first and last post:

We often define masculinity in “counter” to femininity; but, without that, what is it? For a cis and/or heterosexual masculine people, take away your ideas of “femininity” — take away the expectation to desire, attract, attain, malign, dominate, and control femininity/women…what’s left? What do you have? What is your sense of self?

I think about this all the time.

I think this drive to find what “The Masculine Traits” are contributes to the problem as I see it: that we don’t allow boys to self-discover and self-actualize at all. We’re still kind of falling into this framework of thinking that there’s a set of positive masculine traits that we can substitute for the toxic masculinity that boys are inundated by. It feels like we’re still telling boys that “Being a man is THIS,” when really we should be giving boys the emotional and expressive toolkit to define for themselves what their relationship to masculinity (and femininity) is.

He apparently thinks about complete meaningless nonsense all the time.

[Potato]

My two favorite of his psuedophilosophical statements were in the first and last post:

We often define masculinity in “counter” to femininity; but, without that, what is it? For a cis and/or heterosexual masculine people, take away your ideas of “femininity” — take away the expectation to desire, attract, attain, malign, dominate, and control femininity/women…what’s left? What do you have? What is your sense of self?

I think about this all the time.

I think this drive to find what “The Masculine Traits” are contributes to the problem as I see it: that we don’t allow boys to self-discover and self-actualize at all. We’re still kind of falling into this framework of thinking that there’s a set of positive masculine traits that we can substitute for the toxic masculinity that boys are inundated by. It feels like we’re still telling boys that “Being a man is THIS,” when really we should be giving boys the emotional and expressive toolkit to define for themselves what their relationship to masculinity (and femininity) is.

He apparently thinks about complete meaningless nonsense all the time.

WRONG!!!

He thinks about hood burgers all the time.

[Potato]

This is really reductionist, we do have many positive
examples of masculinity currently. Terry Crews, Sam Smith, Harry Styles, Elliot Page, ect.

Holy shit, just re-read this and laughed out loud in the office. Imagine saying this shit and NOT being a troll...

[Besticus Maximus]

Can I just shock you? Being masculine is actually about being a massive girly fanny

[Daffy Duck]

Lol so my Twitter feed is full of this male shit

Response to this video

anyway misandry is real and while it doesnt systemically affect cis men it most definitely affects trans men

yall taking about "misandry doesnt harm men" and trans men are right there reading this shit btw

I see we only care about misandry because it affects trans men, everyone stop its affecting a group i care about now. I love the retoric evolved overnight from male tears to cis male tears.

[benji]

[Daffy Duck]

1691554957[/url]']

1691545845[/url]']

This is really reductionist, we do have many positive
examples of masculinity currently. Terry Crews, Sam Smith, Harry Styles, Elliot Page, ect.

Holy shit, just re-read this and laughed out loud in the office. Imagine saying this shit and NOT being a troll...

Yeah I just did exactly the same thing…I can’t believe what I just read.

[Snoopy]

First and foremost, to be more specific, my goal is to one day get a digimon story published, I may well have brought this up on here once before, but I believe I can articulate my thoughts better now, so I’m giving it another go.


I’m not foolish enough to believe this type of thing is easy, it’s hard enough to publish one’s own individual creations in any meaningful way, let alone a million dollar franchise.

The obvious answer is to be content with fan fiction, that’s something that if I have to accept I will, but i want to be sure I’ve exhausted every other option.

To make this goal more obtainable, I have no quarrel as to what form of media it would end up getting adapted to, a comic book would be more than enough for me. I’m also not expecting this to happen over night, I’m more than willing to take the long game with this, and I have an idea for that, I just want to know what my other options are, and I genuinely don’t know where to go for advice.



My current path, is to just work on my own stuff for the time being, perhaps one day with a ton of effort, and a little luck, proving my name can sell something will result in an opportunity to actually work with those on the top. That said, perhaps it’s just that I’m, impatient but it just doesn’t sit right with me to leave things in at best an uncertain direction, ideally I want something more direct , more black and white.


Over the years, I’ve as sincerely as I can, asked on various places for advice, even knowing what I was asking was quite a hard subject, I had hope that if nothing else, someone would believe it was obtainable.

On Reddit, i was basically shunned for bringing the subject up, with the sentiment being that I was full of myself for even thinking such a thing was possible, I made contact with someone who does YouTube for a living and is a decent person, they’ve worked with Bandai to some degree in the past, but their advice equated to just being satisfied with fan fiction.


I looked into an old digimon comic done in the west around the early 2000’s a couple years back, knowing that at one time, it wasn’t unheard of for them to work to some degree with the companies in charge of the property, I tried contacting them to see if they could perhaps direct me to someone who might know more, but I was completely ignored.

The same obviously happened when I contacted said companies that own the IP, I made sure to not put any unsolicited content into the emails, and was as professional as possible when asking for any available avenues.

And so, foolish though it inevitably is, I find myself once again looking for advice. If nothing else, there’s some comfort in putting it into words.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/is-this-a-pipe-dream-or-are-there-actual-paths-to-success-writing-fiction-for-an-established-property.751261/

[JoeBoy101]

It's too late, the chuds won

The decisions made early on to buy into the naive and frankly stupid idea of what the internet could be, and to more or less cede all authority and regulation to nobody, was not just a massive mistake, but it ensured this was always going to work out this way.

If only we had given authority to the white supremacist toxic patriarchy to control what's allowed to be said online.

Like so many responses in that thread, that entire screed shows how they couldn't wait to spout their drivel, but couldn't be fucked to actually read the article.

Ignoring what this chowderhead thought the internet could be molded into early on when it was in a fragile, nascent, unproven state, the internet wasn't the problem in this context it would be social media.

And again, ignores the opinion piece entirely which makes the point that the traditional male characteristics that make role models have been stripped away, but nothing to serve as a guide for new role models has been put in place. An analogy would be Russia after the Berlin Wall fell and communism was supplanted with attempted capitalism for its economy. No work was done to make the change, experts really thought they could just unplug communism and upload the new capitalism operating system overnight. Instead, it created a kleptocracy that put corruption and mobs at the head that eventually lead to where they are at today. In the void of actual leadership, the people reached out to someone, anyone whom would fill the void, regardless of how bad they were.

[JoeBoy101]

It’s like telling kids that broccoli taste like chocolate ice cream. Gotta find the fun and healthy balance. 

My recommendation is to promote Dredd 2012. Break down the facts. Dredd respects his lady boss. He doesn’t trauma dump or mansplain when asked about his job. He doesn’t discriminate against race or sex when killing criminals. He actively supports his young female partner without infantilizing her or having a male savior complex. He’s secure enough with his sexuality to wear a full leather outfit.



Immediately calls for paramedics to help wounded. Uses his words to deescalate the situation. Saves latinx woman from white male skinhead by melting his skull.

This guy fucks.

[JoeBoy101]

This is really reductionist, we do have many positive
examples of masculinity currently. Terry Crews, Sam Smith, Harry Styles, Elliot Page, ect.

Sam Smith, "positive masculinity"

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

Harry Styles, "positive masculinity"

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

Elliot Page, "positive masculinity"

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

"Trans and non-binary people just want to exist."

"Oh, looking for role models for millions upon millions of disaffected young men? Definitely should follow these men, including one that doesn't even used that label."

[Uncle]

"It's not a fetish."

every single time these days

it's about being a TRANS girl, not a girl

again, remember the whole point of this condition, it's about wanting to be a full-fledged woman, trans women are women

are regular women too boring, too trad, too oppressed and dismissed?

you need to be trans specifically in order to be special and maintain your unique privileges

[Uncle]

This is really reductionist, we do have many positive
examples of masculinity currently. Terry Crews, Sam Smith, Harry Styles, Elliot Page, ect.

the most offensive part of this is the ect

[jorma]

This is really reductionist, we do have many positive
examples of masculinity currently. Terry Crews, Sam Smith, Harry Styles, Elliot Page, ect.

Terry Crews: the fuck did i do?
also Terry Crews: why is every woman on the planet suddenly throwing their waps at me? i'm married ffs!