Journal of Other Forum Analysis (Volume II, Issue 2)

[benji]

Wtf 

Men like this?

[Boredfrom]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/kotaku-jeff-kaplan-says-complaining-about-games-you-won’t-play-gets-you-ignored-‘shut-the-fuck-up-no-one-cares’.1464391/page-3

The only honest retard in that thread:

I don't fully agree but i guess it's a fine line between voicing your displeasure and being rude. There are so many degenerate and problematic games out there. You really shouldn't have to play them to call them out

He is still an idiot but is not pretending he doesn’t hate stuff.

[Greatness Gone]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/30-billion-images-captured-by-pokemon-go-players-have-been-repurposed-for-training-grocery-delivery-robots-by-niantic.1464499/

Effective use of tech, or creepy misuse of tech? What's stopping the same dataset being used for drone attacks?

[benji]

This Jason dude literally cannot read. From the paper:

Common Crawl is a San Francisco based nonprofit 501©(3) organization that has been regularly crawling the entire WWW and generating archival snapshot data-dumps, often termed the CommonCrawl (CC) datasets in machine learning lexicon, since 2011. The current version of this archive (dated April 2021) is roughly 320 TB in size and spans 3.1 billion pages. The sheer scale of this dataset has an enduring allure in the AI community and has been used as a seeding dataset in training pipelines of high-profile projects5 such as GPT-3 [34], CLUECorpus2020 [35], and XLM-R [36].
...
The LAION-400M dataset emerges from this landscape containing hundreds of millions of ImageAlt-text pairs parsed from the Common-Crawl dataset and filtered using a previously Common-Crawl trained AI model (CLIP [2]).
...
Upon querying the search portal (the version available on September 12th, 2021) with non-NSFW queries, we encountered a significantly high ratio of NSFW results that contained vivid depictions of sexual violence and other troubling imagery. Even the weakest link to womanhood or some aspect of what is traditionally conceived as feminine returned pornographic imagery. For example, when searched for descriptive adjectives such as big and small (Figures 4a and 4b respectively), terms such as Asian, Indian and Nigerian (Figures 5 (a), (b) and © respectively), relationship terms such as Aunty and Mummy (Figures 6 (a) and (b) respectively), cross-cultural terms such as Maa and Abuela (Figures 7 (a) and (b) respectively), or demographic-indicators such as Latina and Black-woman (Figures 8 (a) and (b) respectively); all returned images clearly sourced from pornographic websites. These images were not just prototypically "NSFW" from a parochial nudity perspective but also included explicit rape scene imagery as well as photo-shopped images of female celebrities. 
Furthermore, we queried the dataset for terms such as school girl and school boy (Figures 9 (a) and (b) respectively), beautiful, handsome, and CEO (Figures 10 (a), (b) and © respectively), African and European (figures 11 (a) and (b) respectively) as well as terms such as best president, worst president (Figures 12 (a) and (b) respectively), and terrorist and white power (Figures 13 (a) and (b) respectively) to get a glimpse of how much the dataset can potentially aid in creating semantic-search technologies that end up perpetuating historical, social, and cultural stereotypes and political biases. The sample images reveal how the specific semantic search engine version meant to fetch images from LAION-400M, not only risked amplifying hyper-sexualized and misogynist representation of women, but also presented results that were reminiscent of Anglo-centric, Euro-centric, and potentially, White-supremacist ideologies.

They took a database that grabbed everything it found on the English speaking internet, then they searched it and there was porn in it. This is what Jason and the paper is bitching about, that nobody has sanitized these GIGANTIC INHUMAN SCALE databases of anything someone doesn't like. They literally say this in the abstract:

We found that the dataset contains, troublesome and explicit images and text pairs of rape, pornography, malign stereotypes, racist and ethnic slurs, and other extremely problematic content.

And in the first few pages complain about hate speech and porn being in it:

Inevitably this gargantuan dataset mined from the WWW suffers from serious issues. For instance, Matic et al. [37] used the Curlie.org crowdsourced taxonomy project to train a GDPR-Article(9)-Sensitive-URL classifier which revealed that, of the 1 Billion URLs they audited in the Common Crawl project, 155 million URLs fell into the sensitive category. The Realtoxicityprompts work [38] revealed that CommonCrawl contained over 300,000 documents from unreliable news sites and banned subReddit pages containing hate speech and racism. More recently, Luccioni and Viviano’s initial study [39] placed the ‘Hate speech’ content level to be around 4.02%-5.24% (the 1+ hate n-grams level was estimated higher at 17.78%). With regards to CCAligned, a 119- language parallel dataset built off 68 snapshots of Common Crawl, Caswell et al. [40] revealed that there were notable amounts of pornographic content (> 10%) found for 11 languages with prevalence rates being as high as 24% for language pairs such as en-om_KE.

90% of it wasn't porn! That's too low! It needs to be 100%!

They realize that the databases are too gigantic to sanitize and as a result suggest they should therefore restricted from public access, with only the largest special elites who know better being able to use them:

Some works have suggested that it is impossible to filter and clean large datasets with the set of methods and techniques currently available [70]. This presents questions such as: should an organisation collect, release and/or use a dataset it is incapable of cleaning itself? And assuming the answer is no, does that mean that collecting and releasing larger scale datasets should be restricted to the likely larger organisations with the resources to clean them?

And what we really need is a bunch of highly paid credentialed new jannies or else Black women will be murdered:

Crucially, given what we have learned from the initial exploration of this dataset; it becomes more critical to understand how the private large-scale datasets used in BigTech compare with regards to these issues. It is almost certain that if large technology companies are automatically filtering their datasets, which they likely are, they will suffer from the same issues identified in the LAOIN-400M dataset. This further motivates the need for independent dataset auditors who can be trusted to go into these organisations, audit their datasets and publicly release the audit results to the wider AI community and its stakeholders.

And lastly, as we seek answers to these questions; what can be done about datasets such as LAION400M in the meantime? Such datasets present a threat to Black women, ethnic minorities, children and generally to individuals and communities at the margins of society.

[benji]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/30-billion-images-captured-by-pokemon-go-players-have-been-repurposed-for-training-grocery-delivery-robots-by-niantic.1464499/

Effective use of tech, or creepy misuse of tech? What's stopping the same dataset being used for drone attacks?

Google Maps? Effective use of tech, or creepy misuse of tech? What's stopping the same dataset from being used for drone attacks?
Orbiting satellites with cameras? Effective use of tech, or creepy misuse of tech? What's stopping the same dataset from being used for drone attacks?
Flying drones? Effective use of tech, or creepy misuse of tech? What's stopping the same dataset from being used for drone attacks?

[HaughtyFrank]

What really annoys me is that they also look at the image on the right and conclude "WOW, THAT'S FROM PORN!"



Have these dumbfucks ever looked at porn? How is that your standard female pornstar? 

The far more obvious inspiration are the millions and millions of fashion photo shoots, instagram models etc.

[BIONIC]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/30-billion-images-captured-by-pokemon-go-players-have-been-repurposed-for-training-grocery-delivery-robots-by-niantic.1464499/

Effective use of tech, or creepy misuse of tech? What's stopping the same dataset being used for drone attacks?

Google Maps? Effective use of tech, or creepy misuse of tech? What's stopping the same dataset from being used for drone attacks?
Orbiting satellites with cameras? Effective use of tech, or creepy misuse of tech? What's stopping the same dataset from being used for drone attacks?
Flying drones? Effective use of tech, or creepy misuse of tech? What's stopping the same dataset from being used for drone attacks?

Pokemon go was like, the closest we ever got to world peace and they turned it into this...

Newsfeed

[Boredfrom]

Ocarina of Time is a classic but it is, pretty uncontroversially, one of the most insanely racist games of all time lmao. Literally just a story about the white hero purifying the land of the dark taint of the decietful arab.

I dunno. They, surprisingly, give the Arab coded antagonist some sort of dimension in the sequel (wind waker is a sequel  ) to the point that people felt sorry for him and questioned king of hyrule. Is also telling in how Gerudos are mostly portrayed positively even in the games where they are related to Ganondorf, including OoT. 

Look, dudes, I seriously doubt that Nintendo thought about how much every fantasy race in Zelda mirrored any real culture IRL. I know that identity politics says that is still a sin even if is unintentional, but at what point it even matters?

[jooseloose]

They hate hot women so much

[benji]

What really annoys me is that they also look at the image on the right and conclude "WOW, THAT'S FROM PORN!"

Have these dumbfucks ever looked at porn? How is that your standard female pornstar? 

The far more obvious inspiration are the millions and millions of fashion photo shoots, instagram models etc.

If what NVIDIA says its doing is anywhere near accurate, it's not even that, it's reading the lighting and shading of all these images and then applying where it imagines it should be to the texture based on the texture/model. If the results come out as "porn" that's because of CAPCOM's original facial model. (Or your own personal hangups.)

In the other examples in the press release you can see the same effect applied to a whole bunch of different faces and it's all pretty much the same:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss5-breakthrough-in-visual-fidelity-for-games/

NVIDIA's Pornify filter built on reading porn and only porn activate:

[Geoff Marvel]

They hate women so much

[benji]

The Bluesky idiots like Jason thinks the model is somehow seeing porn and going OH YEAH LET'S PORN THIS SHIT UP when all the model is doing is looking at the colors of the pixels.  


At any level above that, from the examples NVIDIA provided it looks like it's mostly limited to identifying faces. It's basically just an advanced shader for lighting/shading faces, but rather than do any math they probably trained it on a trillion images of people's faces. The only issue porn would theoretically add to this is if it starts generating cum on people's faces.

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

The Way It's Meant To Be Played™  

[Boredfrom]

Finland's President Alexander Stubb said NATO allies should take Trump's warnings seriously about securing the Strait of Hormuz. Stubb said countries able and willing to support the US should do so.

Such a cuck

https://www.resetera.com/threads/2026-us-and-israel-launches-strike-on-iran-khamenei-killed-israel-invades-lebanon.1449391/page-216#post-152652691

[benji]

Finland's President Alexander Stubb said NATO allies should take Trump's warnings seriously about securing the Strait of Hormuz. Stubb said countries able and willing to support the US should do so.

Such a cuck

https://www.resetera.com/threads/2026-us-and-israel-launches-strike-on-iran-khamenei-killed-israel-invades-lebanon.1449391/page-216#post-152652691

Thought these guys were all for INTERNATIONAL LAW, you know the one that says you can't close the Strait or attack shipping in it?

edit: https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part3.htm

[Boredfrom]

Finland's President Alexander Stubb said NATO allies should take Trump's warnings seriously about securing the Strait of Hormuz. Stubb said countries able and willing to support the US should do so.

Such a cuck

https://www.resetera.com/threads/2026-us-and-israel-launches-strike-on-iran-khamenei-killed-israel-invades-lebanon.1449391/page-216#post-152652691

Thought these guys were all for INTERNATIONAL LAW, you know the one that says you can't close the Strait or attack shipping in it?

edit: https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part3.htm

https://www.resetera.com/threads/u-s-is-allowing-iranian-oil-tankers-through-strait-of-hormuz-says-bessent.1464169/

The US has no right to stop them in the first place.

[benji]

so I guess queers for palestine wasn't a stretch after all

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

[Boredfrom]

Here comes Echoes:

So if a woman criticizes a trailer or a preview for being skeevy or male gazey, say they aren't going to play something because of the misogynistic elements presented or the objectification, the writing, transphobia etc they should be told "no one cares" and to "shut the fuck up"?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/kotaku-jeff-kaplan-says-complaining-about-games-you-won’t-play-gets-you-ignored-‘shut-the-fuck-up-no-one-cares’.1464391/page-4#post-152654389

[Snoopy]

you can live your life and no one will throw you off a roof they throw gays off the roof there it’s horrible.”

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/trump-i-do-believe-ill-be-having-the-honor-of-taking-cuba-%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Ci-think-i-can-do-anything-i-want-with-it-if-you-want-to-know-the-truth.1464430/page-2#post-152649508

There's also a good amount who allow facism by staying home when they aren't being specifically catered to

ClickyCal'?

[Boredfrom]

While I can see where he's coming from, I've seen this kind of argument too much as a way to shut down criticism of problematic elements (paid RNG (including Overwatch) and especially objectification and sexualization of women in games) to honestly take it seriously and I'm dreading Kalpan's words here are going to be weaponized to attack people with any criticism of an upcoming work. Guess all trans people like myself who criticised Cyberpunk 2077's transphobic marketing were wrong to do so according to Kaplan and the people fully agreeing with him and should have just "Shut the fuck up" or any game with bigoted or problematic elements.

In the end trailers, previews, betas etc are their to impress and encourage you to buy the game, if they fail to impress then the customer ultimately has the right to speak their mind (obviously we're not talking about attacks, snobs or bigots), especially on a place like this that is all about discussion of games. Whether others care about what you have to say is another story but to me, a post like "This doesn't look good" has the same value of "instant buy!" or "this looks great!"

If you're disappointed with how something looks, plays etc, you have every right to say that. Positivity should not be the only valued discourse.

To be blunt, I find the type of fans and people who police and attempt to dictate who can and can't speak about games and bully and scream at people with the "wrong" opinions, often under the logic of "I want the discussion to be positive" to be more toxic and should fuck off then people saying something is bad or they were disappointed at what something looks. It's honestly been kind of sickening seeing people lately weaponizing rhetoric like "So you want the devs to suffer/be fired" at people with criticism of games or not interested in certain genres (and again weaponized at women criticism objectification or people criticizing paid RNG in games).

But you were wrong, like totally wrong. The fact that the forum needed to accommodate to your wishes was such a low point they still scrambling for not repeating it again (but Hogwarts happened  ).

In fact, people like you and the TransMafia are the ones that fit the criteria of “assholes just being assholes.”

[RetiredSkunk]

I don't get everyone's obsession with AIPAC. Don't they not even reach the top ten in donors?

[benji]

While I can see where he's coming from, I've seen this kind of argument too much as a way to shut down criticism of problematic elements (paid RNG (including Overwatch) and especially objectification and sexualization of women in games) to honestly take it seriously and I'm dreading Kalpan's words here are going to be weaponized to attack people with any criticism of an upcoming work. Guess all trans people like myself who criticised Cyberpunk 2077's transphobic marketing were wrong to do so according to Kaplan and the people fully agreeing with him and should have just "Shut the fuck up" or any game with bigoted or problematic elements.

In the end trailers, previews, betas etc are their to impress and encourage you to buy the game, if they fail to impress then the customer ultimately has the right to speak their mind (obviously we're not talking about attacks, snobs or bigots), especially on a place like this that is all about discussion of games. Whether others care about what you have to say is another story but to me, a post like "This doesn't look good" has the same value of "instant buy!" or "this looks great!"

If you're disappointed with how something looks, plays etc, you have every right to say that. Positivity should not be the only valued discourse.

To be blunt, I find the type of fans and people who police and attempt to dictate who can and can't speak about games and bully and scream at people with the "wrong" opinions, often under the logic of "I want the discussion to be positive" to be more toxic and should fuck off then people saying something is bad or they were disappointed at what something looks. It's honestly been kind of sickening seeing people lately weaponizing rhetoric like "So you want the devs to suffer/be fired" at people with criticism of games or not interested in certain genres (and again weaponized at women criticism objectification or people criticizing paid RNG in games).

This is an argument to never say anything ever.

I don't get everyone's obsession with AIPAC. Don't they not even reach the top ten in donors?

$60 million out of the $2.5 billion in the "single issue" sector alone. 

[benji]

Here comes Echoes:

So if a woman criticizes a trailer or a preview for being skeevy or male gazey, say they aren't going to play something because of the misogynistic elements presented or the objectification, the writing, transphobia etc they should be told "no one cares" and to "shut the fuck up"?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/kotaku-jeff-kaplan-says-complaining-about-games-you-won’t-play-gets-you-ignored-‘shut-the-fuck-up-no-one-cares’.1464391/page-4#post-152654389

You did the thing.

Literally zero way to extrapolate what you took from our posts unless you're making an otherworldly logic leap to frame things in bad faith. There's nuance to things. What Jeff is referring to isn't at all what you're talking about.

Except he doesn't specify WHAT he's referring to in his quote and as I've said in my earlier post, I've seen this rhetoric (and then see people support that rhetoric) WAY too much over the decades, especially back in the early 10s from the fighting game fans to shut down, mock and dismiss criticism of a game's problematic elements, including Overwatch during his tenure in relation to paid RNG and the exploitation of gambling tactics. Kind of hard for me not to see it.

I'm not in the mood to give a man the benefit of the doubt anymore when it comes to this shit, especially in gaming, I'm sick of men like him telling me when I get to speak or what is and isn't valid criticism.

[HaughtyFrank]

I don't get everyone's obsession with AIPAC. Don't they not even reach the top ten in donors?

I think people overestimate their influence because they underestimate how many Americans just support Israel

[benji]

I would rephrase it that they overestimate how much any Americans, including state officials, think about Israel. For the supposed control of the American government, until the recent boost after Oct. 7th, the aid the US gives to Israel is not even 0.01% of the state budget and much of that which is considered "Israeli interests" is well established long US policy on purely American interest grounds. The US has been in an "emergency" since the Islamic Republic started and it has had nothing to do with Israel. The relationship with the Shah had nothing to do with Israel. Does Israel control the EU, Russia, China and everybody else who have been against the Iranian nuclear program?

Americans vaguely support Israel, most of the anti-Israel group can't conceive of anything but eliminating the state from existence as being in the thrall of Israel. I mean, yeah, of course the West is going to support the Westernized democracy in the Judeo-Christian tradition over others in the region. But then these are also people who thought Osama's beef with the US was Israel and not the Saudi's. They also whipped themselves into a belief that this current thing is "deeply unpopular" because they're in a bubble obsessed with it.

edit: Looked up newest poll:

In a survey of more than 800 American adults, there is a clear divide on the campaign against Iran: 44 percent support the U.S.-Israeli military operation while 41 percent oppose. Predictably, this largely broke upon partisan lines. Whereas Republicans were overwhelmingly supportive (82 percent), just one-third (32 percent) of independents and 17 percent of Democrats said the same.

At the same time, Americans broadly recognize the threat Iran poses and support the war’s goals. Indeed, two-thirds (66 percent) of Americans believe Iran poses a serious threat to the United States’ national security, almost three times the 22 percent who say Iran does not.

Even more tellingly, while divided over the military operation itself, we found that strong majorities of Americans back the campaign’s underlying objectives: 78 percent support stopping Iran from funding terrorist groups, 72 percent support ending its nuclear program, and 59 percent support regime change.

Read Era and you'd think the American populace is about to invade the White House and overthrow Trump over cucking himself to Israel. When two-thirds of the population supports the ends if necessarily not the means. (Which was the same with Iraq btw, we've often let everyone rewrite this too. Dems weren't unified against the war, at least half supported it.)

edit edit: I should have kept reading that poll story:

To that end, after a battery of messages covering those topics and others such as Iran’s role in Hamas’s Oct. 7 attack and the resulting wars throughout the region, a majority (51 percent) of Americans supported the joint military operations, versus 34 percent who opposed — a meaningful net 14-point increase from the initial 44-41 split.

Moreover, when informed about the Iranian regime’s crackdown on January’s protests — which, by one estimate, saw government forces kill between 30,000-40,000 protestors — nearly six in 10 (59 percent) of Americans became more supportive of the ongoing military operation. 

Importantly, the rise in support cut across party lines. Following the message battery, support among Democrats nearly doubled to 32 percent, while Independents saw a 5-point increase. Republicans (85 percent) remained strongly in favor.

Likewise, we found that despite initial opposition among Democrats and independents, when they heard about Iran’s record of hostility towards the U.S. and brutal oppression of its own people, support tended to increase rather significantly. After statements concerning the regime’s response to January’s protests, nearly one-half (48 percent) of Democrats and 44 percent of independents — large pluralities of both groups — became more supportive of U.S.-Israeli military actions.

[benji]

Look at this fucking cop:

Spoiler: images in case he goes private (click to show)(click to hide)

He thinks it changed the characters skin color rather than lightening the entire image as it does in all the examples.

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

 

edit: Because certain people will misinterpret me, I don't entirely disagree with lex's tweet, the first thing I thought with some of the Resident Evil screenshots was that I think they were ruining Capcom's deliberate compositing of some of the scenes. Which I think is proof that this is part of NVIDIA's deliberate plot to cater to white supremacists.

[Alpacx]

What really annoys me is that they also look at the image on the right and conclude "WOW, THAT'S FROM PORN!"

DLSS5 making all women in video games look like Aubrey Plaza? Sign me up.

[Boredfrom]

[benji]

Hours earlier:

[Taco Bell Tower]

While I can see where he's coming from, I've seen this kind of argument too much as a way to shut down criticism of problematic elements (paid RNG (including Overwatch) and especially objectification and sexualization of women in games) to honestly take it seriously and I'm dreading Kalpan's words here are going to be weaponized to attack people with any criticism of an upcoming work. Guess all trans people like myself who criticised Cyberpunk 2077's transphobic marketing were wrong to do so according to Kaplan and the people fully agreeing with him and should have just "Shut the fuck up" or any game with bigoted or problematic elements.

In the end trailers, previews, betas etc are their to impress and encourage you to buy the game, if they fail to impress then the customer ultimately has the right to speak their mind (obviously we're not talking about attacks, snobs or bigots), especially on a place like this that is all about discussion of games. Whether others care about what you have to say is another story but to me, a post like "This doesn't look good" has the same value of "instant buy!" or "this looks great!"

If you're disappointed with how something looks, plays etc, you have every right to say that. Positivity should not be the only valued discourse.

To be blunt, I find the type of fans and people who police and attempt to dictate who can and can't speak about games and bully and scream at people with the "wrong" opinions, often under the logic of "I want the discussion to be positive" to be more toxic and should fuck off then people saying something is bad or they were disappointed at what something looks. It's honestly been kind of sickening seeing people lately weaponizing rhetoric like "So you want the devs to suffer/be fired" at people with criticism of games or not interested in certain genres (and again weaponized at women criticism objectification or people criticizing paid RNG in games).

But you were wrong, like totally wrong. The fact that the forum needed to accommodate to your wishes was such a low point they still scrambling for not repeating it again (but Hogwarts happened  ).

In fact, people like you and the TransMafia are the ones that fit the criteria of “assholes just being assholes.”

idk,their slaaaaay kween Kyuuji was busting his nut over CP2077 and multi played it like no tomorrow