Journal of Other Forum Analysis (Volume II, Issue 1)

[benji]

Like you can argue in the case of fighting games those already exist like the already mentioned Dead of Alive or SNK's SNK Heroines; but at least from my perspective, those games are pretty clearly pushing titillation and enjoyment for men (one of the reasons why had to stop playing DOA was because it go too much) and while lesbians and wlw can enjoy that, it's not the same as stuff made for wlw and lesbians by lesbians and wlw.

And this is the part that I was worried about posting, as I've mentioned before, I get great joy reading wholesome wlw fan art but occasionally, in part because of a few of the artists I follow also draw them, looking into the more sexual and adult wlw fan art (not necessarily porn) and you can tell that it's made by women because... I don't know how to describe it that isn't just vibes; there's a lack of leeriness and just attitudes you see and feel in art and stories drawn & written by men or for men (and in my experience, often just has a more fun, loving and companionate feeling to it)... I feel like I'm doing a terrible job explaining this.

No, no, you're doing great. Keep going. In fact, I think all the lesbians in the thread should help you.

[Besticus Maximus]

something I hadn't really thought of before; a T&A game, a fighting game to be exact, specifically made and for wlw and lesbians in mind by women; like say Dead or Alive if it was made by women for the enjoyment of women.

[Boredfrom]

Remember when Princess Bubblegum said that the Dungeon Meshi author and that female Japanese dev must be gay because “they get the vibes”? 

Was not creepy or discriminatory at all.

[killamajig]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i%E2%80%99m-thru-hiking-the-appalachian-trail-ama.1162509/page-7#post-139981092

Alive!!

Sorry y'all, been really wet these past few days. Finally dried out. At Fontana Dam now, entering the smokies tomorrow! Will cross 200 miles in 2 days.

[killamajig]

something I hadn't really thought of before; a T&A game, a fighting game to be exact, specifically made and for wlw and lesbians in mind by women; like say Dead or Alive if it was made by women for the enjoyment of women.

[benji]

Echos lesbian tropes: "often just has a more fun, loving and companionate feeling to it"
Real lesbian tropes: first date U-Hauls and domestic violence

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

I hope this post isn't inappropriate. Last night a reply to me in another thread made me think of something I hadn't really thought of before; a T&A game, a fighting game to be exact, specifically made and for wlw and lesbians in mind by women; like say Dead or Alive if it was made by women for the enjoyment of women.

It's a sentiment I've seen from other wlw women before when I've discussed fighting games, some women do like sexualized characters, some women love the idea of dressing like that and feel empowered by it. I don't think their is anything wrong with that, I love Morrigan and would love to cosplay as her, I love Anna Williams and Manon would love to be able to dress like them, to have that body and feel proud and comfortable. For me, these characters have the every right to exist. Personally my issue is that they shouldn't be the only options, like not everyone should be Catwoman if that makes sense (and they shouldn't be objectified for men either) and being sexy/attractive should not be a requirement for every women in games.

There are women who do love that sort of thing, wlw and lesbians who are great people and would love an all-women fighting game made for their enjoyment, the same way I'd love an all-woman fighting that was gothic knights and warriors or monster ladies. It's not something I may ever play myself, but I do think their should be games for all women and shouldn't feel shamed for it.

Like you can argue in the case of fighting games those already exist like the already mentioned Dead of Alive or SNK's SNK Heroines; but at least from my perspective, those games are pretty clearly pushing titillation and enjoyment for men (one of the reasons why had to stop playing DOA was because it go too much) and while lesbians and wlw can enjoy that, it's not the same as stuff made for wlw and lesbians by lesbians and wlw.

And this is the part that I was worried about posting, as I've mentioned before, I get great joy reading wholesome wlw fan art but occasionally, in part because of a few of the artists I follow also draw them, looking into the more sexual and adult wlw fan art (not necessarily porn) and you can tell that it's made by women because... I don't know how to describe it that isn't just vibes; there's a lack of leeriness and just attitudes you see and feel in art and stories drawn & written by men or for men (and in my experience, often just has a more fun, loving and companionate feeling to it)... I feel like I'm doing a terrible job explaining this.

What I'm trying to say is that a DOA for lesbians and wlw by lesbians and wlw) wouldn't feel them same (at least for women) wouldn't feel the same. My wonder is could that game even get made in this gaming climate without compromise for executives or companies? Like for example one of the reasons I've never clicked with Bayonetta is that she felt compromised, especially in the first game, like she was designed by a women, but was directed and filmed by a man if that makes sense?

Like I said it's not something I'd play, but I get why other wlw and lesbian would and they should be have the game they want, made by people who care about their wants.

There is also something else, as I've mentioned before, I've often felt like a hypocrite for liking Anna and Morrigan while pushing against objectification and sexualization of women in gaming, better diversity etc, like I'm part of the problem. As I've become more comfortable as I've realized I'm a lesbian and more open with liking women like Manon, part of the reason why I posted that Manon thread... But there is one character that I've felt embarrassed to admit that I like, that I'd be looked down because her design because it is pretty unjustifiable (not helped by giving her lines at time that do that "You're bad if you criticize my clothing choice!" men writers do to justify their hyper sexualized characters and it always comes across as insecure, awkward and stiff) or men would call me out and dismiss anything I had to say about objectification.

The character is Makoto from BlazBlue (edit: Just realized she's been my avatar, I forgot I added her to it)

 

She was my favourite character when I played BlazBlue (stopped because the series got, like with DOA too much for me), I loved her personality, loved her English voice by Cindy Robinson, I think her friendship and protectiveness of Noel was sweet and adorable (and the type of friendship I wish I had growing up), she was just fun to play as and I love she Queer (and flirts and is attracted to the series trans character, Mai Natsume) and specifically designed to be wlw (she was created in response to deciding to make Tsubaki Yayoi straight during development). But I feel embarrassed to say that because... Well she's so sexualized and objectified, even more so then most DOA characters, worse because in cutscenes, she has a jacket that she removes during fights:


Just wanted to admit that since it's been nagging at me for quite some time.

Really sorry if this is inappropriate or if I've bothered users here. I thought of making this it's own thread but was worried about people treating is as a joke or be weird about.

And sorry for being so ramblely.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-women-criticise-sexualised-character-designs-ot3-make-her-look-more-corpulent-more-stuffed-where-the-eyes-cant-escape.275780/page-459#post-139971984

Some of the pictures in the post:

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

I don't think it's weird at all. There are times I think some sexualized characters are actually quite cute. I often think of Midna from Twilight Princess. She's definitely supposed to be hot and a bit male gaze-y, but I absolutely adore her. Hell, some Sailor Moon characters are sexualized, but that doesn't stop me from thinking the Starlights are awesome. I actually like 2B's outfit from Automata. I just hate that she's been boiled down to riped clothes and other characters from that game. I think it's okay to like problematic things, but what annoys me is when people downplay it or straight up justifies the way women look as if we would *always* choose to be skimpy or want men to look at us 24/7.

I'm a bisexual woman that criticized lots of characters, and yet, a hot pirate woman makes me weak.

I've mentioned before in this thread how generally I'm not too bothered by sexualised character designs, and sometimes actually appreciate them to some degree (maybe not even necessarily how they're sexualised, but their outfits or overall design), so I don't think it's weird at all. I think for me at least, how the character is portrayed and treated is what's most important. A character having "agency" (obviously they can't have actual "agency" due to being fictional, so I use this loosely) and being well written can instantly make them a much more likeable character than one that isn't, even if they both have sexualised designs. Sexualised characters that are written as if they're oblivious to the fact they're hot, and/or otherwise written from a misogynistic perspective are much less appealing.

All this to say... I think sexualised character designs are fine as long as they're treated with respect, personally speaking of course.

so.. trans gaze to sexualize female characters is fine? T&A game for LESBIANS?

[benji]

I find a lot of "poly" transbians conception of relationships are more like best friends with benefits. The poly people are constantly describing regular friendships as poly relationships without any explanation as what makes it a relationship other than their gross pathetic sexual shit. Transbians constantly talk this way about their girlfriends, just look at Cenauru for a prime example. Never lived outside his parents home, never had a relationship, now is a "transbian" with Android Sophia living on his own for the first time and it just sounds like he has a best friend roommate, which is what it is. Except they sometimes jerk each other off or whatever, something that Bire members do to each other all the time without making it a relationship. 

In Echos case, from actually reading his shit (I know, it's a problem, but don't kink shame me), he wants a best friend. I'd have to read older stuff to how he determined this meant lesbianism but I wouldn't be surprised if it's because he read transbians describing their "relationships" and it's just friends and he wants that because he's lonely and doesn't know how to socialize with anybody but queen wasps. You can see his longing for making friends with fictional characters who just appear and want to talk to him. Logically it makes sense without any counter evidence. There actually was one of his threads where he had a few telling lines about how wlw = best friends. As an autist he probably imagines that's how girls in general have friendships (unlike boys who are rough and mean and grunt and only talk about what they want to fuck), then they practice kissing and... transbians in general talk like this all the time.

[killamajig]

Echos lesbian tropes: "often just has a more fun, loving and companionate feeling to it"
Real lesbian tropes: first date U-Hauls and domestic violence

Do you think Echos ever fantasizes about real lesbians? I bet I've banged more bisexual butch women than he's even thought about. I got to be more of a lesbian than Echos by thoses standards. (But Buck Angel might be a bridge too far even for me, before anyone asks)

[benji]

Actually, if you told me Echos doesn't really sexually fantasize at all, I wouldn't be entirely surprised. A lot of these shut-in virgins are perverts, but every so often you come across one that has a very asexual seeming conception of it all. I'm not saying they're perfect free of it, they are men after all (BOOM ROASTED), but you really question it. Echos seems truly autistic enough that he may have completely detached from the reality aspect of women as actual existing people. There have been a few trans Twitter accounts I've seen that seemed to not even really understand sex as a process, in terms of like what you'd learn in school or could grasp just from viewing one (1) instance of standard pornography. Amusingly this seemed not to harm their status as a brilliant lecturer of all topics.

Like to use another example to illustrate this type of concept, Melody Shreds is constantly posting not just anime girls but explicit pornography, right? I could see someone like Echos who appreciates the girls purely from a generally desexualized aesthetic perspective and the introduction of dicks pumping sperm all over them like Melody posts would be corrupting it. Echos can so easily swap over to non-humans as his interest because he's not really approaching it from a sexual perspective even if he's using sexual language like wlw and lesbian, as I noted above I think what he really is looking for is a best friend.

[Snoopy]

I love it when the transbians forget the script they wrote themselves.



they always knew


"NEVER" would have known

This is a perfect example of how incredibly stupid they are and how it's all an unhealthy obsession with power.

They spent decades being men doing what they do and being fine with it and arguably themselves, because men can do whatever they want. But it wasn't until they "learned" that they can say "oh I'm a girl" that they realized "oh I can say I'm a girl" as if this should matter. What do they gain from it? They literally can't explain it. They just want the label because they want the power of being able to browbeat others with it. And that's it, that's the entire thing they want, the power they think comes with being able to call themselves a woman. A power their state still enforces with violence if they put in a little bit of effort but is too much for them, they want the power and the violence without any effort on their part except personal declaration.

This is what they actually "learned" that there was power over others they weren't accessing. This is their real regrets, that they spent so much of their life not knowing they could have been threatening people to make them do things. (Even though they couldn't, the GRA was only passed in 2004 and the self-ID thing never had any power in the West until that point.)

But they still apparently haven't learned that yes, it's totally fine to be a man and enjoy lesbians, Pokemon, video games especially fighting games and RPGs, seeing movies in theaters an absurd number of times, trying to walk like a dinosaur, wasps, etc. No, this must be "girl" things because uh, well, they can't explain that either without resorting to personal hangups with their own individual conception of masculinity that nobody else is required to subscribe to.

I've said before I'm convinced Kyuuji and other trans rees were heavily involved in the GamerGate shit. I don't think Echoes was. He seems to be a very lonely guy who just wants to belong.

[Averon]

What I always find funny is when Echoes goes on their latest autistic wlw diatribe and Reee users are forced to nod their heads in agreement as if it isn't creepy and obsessive and wouldn't have been long called out if Echoes wasn't the "right" oppressed person. Reee's entire politics and worldview makes them extremely vulnerable to people like Echoes and Two Hearts. They know those people are fucked in the head but can't do anything and must hold their tongues less they be tarred and feathered as a transphobic bigot or give the chuds a "win."

[Alpacx]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i%E2%80%99m-thru-hiking-the-appalachian-trail-ama.1162509/page-7#post-139981092

Alive!!

Sorry y'all, been really wet these past few days. Finally dried out. At Fontana Dam now, entering the smokies tomorrow! Will cross 200 miles in 2 days.

Good for him. Even with Uber and McDonalds I hope he finishes.

[benji]

I find a lot of "poly" transbians conception of relationships are more like best friends with benefits. The poly people are constantly describing regular friendships as poly relationships without any explanation as what makes it a relationship other than their gross pathetic sexual shit. Transbians constantly talk this way about their girlfriends, just look at Cenauru for a prime example. Never lived outside his parents home, never had a relationship, now is a "transbian" with Android Sophia living on his own for the first time and it just sounds like he has a best friend roommate, which is what it is. Except they sometimes jerk each other off or whatever, something that Bire members do to each other all the time without making it a relationship. 

In Echos case, from actually reading his shit (I know, it's a problem, but don't kink shame me), he wants a best friend. I'd have to read older stuff to how he determined this meant lesbianism but I wouldn't be surprised if it's because he read transbians describing their "relationships" and it's just friends and he wants that because he's lonely and doesn't know how to socialize with anybody but queen wasps. You can see his longing for making friends with fictional characters who just appear and want to talk to him. Logically it makes sense without any counter evidence. There actually was one of his threads where he had a few telling lines about how wlw = best friends. As an autist he probably imagines that's how girls in general have friendships (unlike boys who are rough and mean and grunt and only talk about what they want to fuck), then they practice kissing and... transbians in general talk like this all the time.

Actually, if you told me Echos doesn't really sexually fantasize at all, I wouldn't be entirely surprised. A lot of these shut-in virgins are perverts, but every so often you come across one that has a very asexual seeming conception of it all. I'm not saying they're perfect free of it, they are men after all (BOOM ROASTED), but you really question it. Echos seems truly autistic enough that he may have completely detached from the reality aspect of women as actual existing people. There have been a few trans Twitter accounts I've seen that seemed to not even really understand sex as a process, in terms of like what you'd learn in school or could grasp just from viewing one (1) instance of standard pornography. Amusingly this seemed not to harm their status as a brilliant lecturer of all topics.

Like to use another example to illustrate this type of concept, Melody Shreds is constantly posting not just anime girls but explicit pornography, right? I could see someone like Echos who appreciates the girls purely from a generally desexualized aesthetic perspective and the introduction of dicks pumping sperm all over them like Melody posts would be corrupting it. Echos can so easily swap over to non-humans as his interest because he's not really approaching it from a sexual perspective even if he's using sexual language like wlw and lesbian, as I noted above I think what he really is looking for is a best friend.

User Banned (6 months): armchair diagnosing

[DocWager]

ResetEra prominents are such control freaks. Like Benji said, they got to freely control on that forum when they assumed the role of women on there, otherwise “Boys Club Rhetoric”.

[killamajig]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i%E2%80%99m-thru-hiking-the-appalachian-trail-ama.1162509/page-7#post-139981092

Alive!!

Sorry y'all, been really wet these past few days. Finally dried out. At Fontana Dam now, entering the smokies tomorrow! Will cross 200 miles in 2 days.

Good for him. Even with Uber and McDonalds I hope he finishes.

"abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is"

[Alpacx]

ResetEra prominents are such control freaks. Like Benji said, they got to freely control on that forum when they assumed the role of women on there, otherwise “Boys Club Rhetoric”.

Avoid Boys Club Rhetoric and Toxic Masculinity with one weird trick!

[Potato]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/palworld-dev-pocketpair-has-shared-a-statement-explaining-changes-made-to-the-game-due-to-the-pokemon-nintendo-lawsuit.1183920/page-17#post-139810674

Hey, at least Nintendo is not actively supporting genocide like Microsoft!

Of course this only matters if you care about that, but still!

Okay, but I found this random tweet:

oh my god he's perfect I trust whatever he says:

He might be the guywhoconquers, but I bet he's never conquered any pussy! 

[Potato]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/anyone-remember-when-ben-affleck-completely-owned-bill-maher-and-sam-harris-on-their-islamophobia.1186278/page-2#post-139823625

User banned (1 month): Islamophobic commentary over a series of posts

---I guess you don't follow Harris so you're not aware he's an anti-woke, transphobic, racist, Islamophobic (can I cram anything more in here)? piece of shit, and you shouldn't draw up conclusions of his opinions based on a minute clip. And you probably shouldn't ask others to do your homework for you either.

It's not up to me to prove something to be true that another poster has claimed. The onus is on them. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with an argument from 10 years ago.

I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone with people here blindly defending the Islamic faith. Would anyone do the same for Christianity? No, of course not. It's been awhile since I had a discussion on this so I had to do some browsing on Wikipedia and here are a couple aspects that jump out:

• Shari'a law and particularly how this relates to women (ie. encouraging domestic violence, acceptance of marriage between very young girls and older men, far fewer rights for women, etc.)
  
• The concept of Jihad as a war that should be waged against non-Muslims (yes, some theologians have translated this as an inner struggle but just as many have taken it to directly mean a physical war)
  
• "Blasphemy" and the punishment for engaging in it (ie. a majority of Islamic countries have incredibly harsh sentences for visual depictions of the prophet)
  

I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that, for example, Judaism or Hinduism have teachings that are as restrictive towards women as the Islamic faith.

Islam, the religion of the left.

[Potato]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i%E2%80%99m-thru-hiking-the-appalachian-trail-ama.1162509/page-7#post-139981092

Alive!!

Sorry y'all, been really wet these past few days. Finally dried out. At Fontana Dam now, entering the smokies tomorrow! Will cross 200 miles in 2 days.

Not on foot you won't dickhead.

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lets-put-it-to-a-vote-do-jrpg-mean-country-of-origin-or-style-of-game.1187238/page-26#post-139948179

User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory Point of Comparison; Account in Junior Phase

.... yo I'm literally talking about the label/tagging system in that post you quoted unless you wanna present me the data to disprove that people are using the tagging system and the reason why I think it qualifies as useful or why explaining what other term you rather use for things that happen vs reality you're having some weirdass discussion on your own that I'm not interested in, go off I guess.

I'm not interested or disputing any fucking discussion on why anyone of yall think the term is bad. I don't care, I never joined that discussion.

This is the only part I dispute. The system is in use, is useful or whatever other term you wanna use for something being in use and aiding towards a purpose.
It's a thing that happens, I call it reality you can call it whatever else. I've outlined the range of my argument if you wanna discuss something else I'm not the right person I responded in that post about something specific that's all.

What? Lol.

I said your arguments are pure positivism because you are saying your personal observation is reality. This is like tagging Islam with terrorism based on your subjective observations and passing it off as objective reality because a lot of people identify Islam with terrorism, hence it's useful to tag them together, despite multiple people telling you this is completely based on your personal biased observation, is contradicted by evidence and, furthermore, is discriminatory.

Joined
Oct 25, 2017

Junior phase?  

[Taco Bell Tower]

It's a sentiment I've seen from other wlw women before when I've discussed fighting games, some women do like sexualized characters, some women love the idea of dressing like that and feel empowered by it. I don't think their is anything wrong with that, I love Morrigan and would love to cosplay as her.

There is also something else, as I've mentioned before, I've often felt like a hypocrite for liking Anna and Morrigan while pushing against objectification and sexualization of women in gaming, better diversity etc, like I'm part of the problem.

Bitch, you're posting this in a thread where maybe 1% are women while 99% are men horny posting. 

[Kyon1988]

What I always find funny is when Echoes goes on their latest autistic wlw diatribe and Reee users are forced to nod their heads in agreement as if it isn't creepy and obsessive and wouldn't have been long called out if Echoes wasn't the "right" oppressed person. Reee's entire politics and worldview makes them extremely vulnerable to people like Echoes and Two Hearts. They know those people are fucked in the head but can't do anything less they be tarred a transphobic bigot or give the chuds a "win."

The reason why Echo annoys me so much is probably Era enabling this behaviour. Melody is a terrible person but at least that freak isn't making excusing for constantly posting hentai.

[Taco Bell Tower]

What I always find funny is when Echoes goes on their latest autistic wlw diatribe and Reee users are forced to nod their heads in agreement as if it isn't creepy and obsessive and wouldn't have been long called out if Echoes wasn't the "right" oppressed person. Reee's entire politics and worldview makes them extremely vulnerable to people like Echoes and Two Hearts. They know those people are fucked in the head but can't do anything less they be tarred a transphobic bigot or give the chuds a "win."

The reason why Echo annoys me so much is probably Era enabling this behaviour. Melody is a terrible person but at least that freak isn't making excusing for constantly posting hentai.

Yet...YET

[books]

I don't think Echoes is autistic. She just uses the age old school tactic of making up a weird quirk to be unique; in this case, hugging wasps since being gay is super old and lame.

A few years ago, i mentioned to a friend that being gay would be the new hotness among young folkx. Never would have imagined where we are now. Dm me for lotto numbers.

[DocWager]

I think the gay trend is dying. Podcasters I listen to are slowly dropping the “This guy is hot” stuff from the dialogue.

[Taco Bell Tower]

How the heck do you do bluesky emblem or whatever it's called?  Ana Valens posted this on their bluesky 

In other news, Kirsche is reading my magical girl forcefem siscon erotica on stream. Because, clearly, this is appropriate and relevant to do to a reporter. Definitely not an attempt to shame a trans woman for her sexuality

https://bsky.app/profile/acvalens.net/post/3lp3ftuchck2c

Also, they posted a lolicon looking character on their Twitter   or "petite"

[books]

How the heck do you do bluesky emblem or whatever it's called?  Ana Valens posted this on their bluesky 

In other news, Kirsche is reading my magical girl forcefem siscon erotica on stream. Because, clearly, this is appropriate and relevant to do to a reporter. Definitely not an attempt to shame a trans woman for her sexuality

https://bsky.app/profile/acvalens.net/post/3lp3ftuchck2c

Also, they posted a lolicon looking character on their Twitter   or "petite"

I clicked the link since im a fan of drama but the number of references that I dont know tells me I'm way too old for this type of drama involving anime hololive characters and stuff.

[killamajig]

EDIT:

For some reason, I can actually hear this in Alec Guinness's voice, and I totally feel it.

[HaughtyFrank]

I think the gay trend is dying. Podcasters I listen to are slowly dropping the “This guy is hot” stuff from the dialogue.

Not even sure I'd call it a gay trend and more safe horny. Like John Oliver regularly makes jokes about how much he wants to get it on with Adam Driver, not because he's gay but because that's a joke that's allowed. Can't do that with Sydney Sweeney though, that would be disgusting!