Journal of Other Forum Analysis (Volume II, Issue 2)

[benji]

Whole familes right now bout to sit down for their traditional family meal while they cheer for the destruction of welfare programs in this nation

The welfare programs (funded by Black oppression and theft from the Global South) and nation that only exist because of the white-led genocide? 

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-reminder-thanksgiving-celebrates-a-myth-of-colonialism-and-white-proprietorship-of-the-u-s.1365442/page-2#post-148162525

Because white Europeans are responsible for the Indigenous genocide which this holiday is ultimately based around, the genocide which their predacessors love to defensively say they do not acknowledge whenever it's brought up.

...sure, but again others races celebrate the holiday and treat it the same way. So is it wrong that Americans celebrate Thanksgiving or is it only wrong that white Americans celebrate Thanksgiving? You may feel differently, but it seems clear that the thread is about the holiday generally.

Dead man walking.

[Eric Cartman]

Not only will I never have thanksgiving dinner again, I retroactively made it so that I've never had thanksgiving dinner

[benji]

The critique shouldn't be that whites or Americans celebrate Thanksgiving because bad things happened, the critique should be that they reject the message of the Thanksgiving story. The problem is that's too hard to demonstrate, especially if your only claim against them is that they don't feel bad about something that happened centuries before and was mostly not the fault of the colonizers because nobody understood germ theory for another few centuries. And especially if you have a corollary that nobody else should feel bad about this even though everyone on the entire planet lives in the world of that history. For example, Lucio only exists because of the genocide.

They don't even have this conversation on Era, instead it's all about how you should demonstrate your impeccable virtue by lecturing others about being less devout.

[Propagandhim]

edit: you know what, this is too much, even for me

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-reminder-thanksgiving-celebrates-a-myth-of-colonialism-and-white-proprietorship-of-the-u-s.1365442/page-2#post-148163149

I can't speak for others but for me it's less about me and what I want and more "my family is going to be upset if I don't visit them for dinner" is the thing. I can't exactly tell them I don't want to celebrate a holiday with fucked up colonial roots when they just want to have dinner with me.

Your family will get over the upset if you really wanted to do it.

[benji]

There's a point that Innuendo Studios brought up that roughly says that the mere presentation of a differing opinion, fact, or principle, even when innocuously stated and not relevant to any on-going debate, can trigger defensiveness and sudden lashing out because it merely reminds people of a contradiction. It's why, for example, when someone is asked if they'd like a burger and they say "no thanks, I'm vegan," they might get some smart shit said to them even though there isn't really an argument or debate to be had. It's the sudden introduction of a new way of being or thinking, something that eats at the comfortable status quo, a potential point of invective, that is the actual problem in this scenario, not that the person turned down food.

Hence why people get pissed off by just reminding you of the history of Thanksgiving. Any sense of judgement is not the problem. The problem is being reminded of the omnipresence of European colonialism and the uncomfortableness of the fact that even ostensibly "good people" have done almost fuck all towards actually ending it. They just want a day to rest, man. They're tired.

No, it's the implied criticism of the person. What's the "contradiction" supposed to be?

The burger example isn't because a new way of thinking was introduced it's because veganism contains an implied criticism, that eating meat is immoral. If it was a new way of thinking to the person they'd have to ask what that means, at which point the criticism would be presented. If someone asked "do you like furries" and I said "hell no, that's an affront to God" you'd understand the implied criticism. Here you're pretending to be stupid.

[HaughtyFrank]

In defense of Resetera, they always speak up for the most pressing concerns of indigenous communities. Be it Thanksgiving, Avatar 1, Avatar 2 or even Avatar 3

[Potato]

Which Resetera mod is this?

Who would have thought allowing the most antisocial, disgruntled, ignorant and unhinged people on the internet to be the judge, jury and executioners in almost every single social space was going to be a bad idea?

[books]

"Colonization and the genocide of the native people's is terrible and its all white Europeans people's fault! Im doing a silent prayer for all the victims and the generational scars borne from the criminal SS Mayflower."

"Thats nice dear. Pass the mash potatoes please."

[benji]

Any sense of judgement is not the problem. The problem is being reminded of the omnipresence of European colonialism and the uncomfortableness of the fact that even ostensibly "good people" have done almost fuck all towards actually ending it.

Uh, this is nothing but a judgement?  You're demanding they do something they can't do and criticizing them for not having done it.

[Propagandhim]

Every thanksgiving I get with friends, put on some clown makeup and yell, "LAND BACK" and guess what?  They get it.  

They fucking get it

[Potato]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-reminder-thanksgiving-celebrates-a-myth-of-colonialism-and-white-proprietorship-of-the-u-s.1365442/

Like at our dinner when we bless the food, we even take time to bless the natives who endured all this nonsense and got us to this point

Like if yall not even doing that, then shut the hell up with the "I don't even think about this" bullshit

And yes, part of that process is working out being so feebly inept being unable bring up historical framework / national politics to a family dinner. It really shows how some have no skin in the game and truly posses privilege that they argue against

LMFAO at all the people here saying they don't think or care about the origin of meaning of Thanksgiving not realizing that they are part of the problem.

Must be so nice having that privilege.

Favorite phenomenon about these people that remain in their ideological/moderated bubble to stay safe from harmful views is that the only people they can badger and scold are their own, because they'd either be laughed out or too angry to function anywhere else among normal people.  So they're just constantly annoying pieces of shit to each other 

YEAH I BLESS MY FOOD AND THE INDIANS, WHAT DO YOU DO BITCH?

I bless the rains down in Africa

[Potato]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-reminder-thanksgiving-celebrates-a-myth-of-colonialism-and-white-proprietorship-of-the-u-s.1365442/page-2#post-148163149

I can't speak for others but for me it's less about me and what I want and more "my family is going to be upset if I don't visit them for dinner" is the thing. I can't exactly tell them I don't want to celebrate a holiday with fucked up colonial roots when they just want to have dinner with me.

Your family will get over the upset if you really wanted to do it.

Guaranteed Nepenthe will be attending Thanksgiving dinner with her family and not saying a damn word about it. Melody is the only real OG here who refuses to eat the coloniser meal and goes hungry.

[Besticus Maximus]

Thanksgiving is a stupid holiday with shit food, yams and macaroni you stupid cunts wtf

[Potato]

Agreed. Turkey is shit. Who fucking eats that crap?

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-reminder-thanksgiving-celebrates-a-myth-of-colonialism-and-white-proprietorship-of-the-u-s.1365442/page-3#post-148164529

Yet you are in a Thanksgiving thread that provided history to those who don't know

Who doesn't know this?

I learned this in Catholic school for christ's sake. We've been teaching the genocide of the natives for decades. There are innumerable pop culture references to it as well which leads me to believe MOST people understand this.

No one goes to their grandma's house on thanksgiving and gives thanks to the good piligrims for their slaughter of natives. Black or White we're focused on family during the holiday.

But let's just move it to Friday and we'll make the old Thanksgiving a day of native remembrance? Does that satisfy?

[Propagandhim]

I was moreso commenting on the "Celebrate your dumb holiday if you want" like it's my choice. But like... no offense, you don't know my family or what they're like, you don't know what the relationships between people and their families are like, and considering how often Thanksgiving is one of the rare opportunities people like me will actually see their loved ones and maintain their connection with them and acting like that's something you're privileged if you don't forgo is super bizarre, and again super sanctimonious. It feels like you lack the understanding of how other people's lives work and are trying to act like you do. "Just skip Thanksgiving your family will get over it" is just so tone-deaf I wasn't sure if you were being serious.

 

Literally none of this is relevant to the suggestion that Top NHST Product provided nor your uninspiring answer of "But my family will be upset if I don't visit them for dinner!" If you don't want to use the holiday to do anything for Indigenous people, just say so. Be direct and honest. Don't make pithy excuses for the unwillingness to commit to something like that, and yes I include social pressure from family because frankly there is no material harm that would be perpetuated if you skipped Thanksgiving. Hell, what would they do if you fell down seriously ill around that time and couldn't travel anyways? Send assassins after you? "You MUST be here." No, you mustn't. You're an adult with your own agency and will.

 

Nepenthe spends more time trying to get some random goof on her forum to not go to a family dinner than she does sending out resumes

[Hap Shaughnessy]

Agreed. Turkey is shit. Who fucking eats that crap?

Skill issue.

[benji]

Guaranteed Nepenthe will be attending Thanksgiving dinner with her family and not saying a damn word about it. Melody is the only real OG here who refuses to eat the coloniser meal and goes hungry.

She's made quite clear before that she, and therefore Black people in general, is exempt from any of this criticism because they didn't ask to come to the United States and don't benefit from any of it.

[benji]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-reminder-thanksgiving-celebrates-a-myth-of-colonialism-and-white-proprietorship-of-the-u-s.1365442/page-3#post-148164529

No one goes to their grandma's house on thanksgiving and gives thanks to the good piligrims for their slaughter of natives.

Because that would be factually incorrect, the "slaughter" was more than a century later.

[Jansen]

I was invited to Thanksgiving dinner and I absolutely cannot wait until I go and lecture them on what Thanksgiving is really all about. That's just being a good guest.

[benji]

One of the good people who definitely won't stay silent about politics at dinner:

[Propagandhim]

She says from her childhood bedroom as her mom calls her downstairs because the meatloaf is ready

[Propagandhim]

"All white people need to do in order for me to get on with my life is have all 200 million of them in america (and then the rest in europe) to come together and dismantle the system.  I'm working on this one guy right now, I'm almost at a breakthrough."

[Hap Shaughnessy]

In defense of Resetera, they always speak up for the most pressing concerns of indigenous communities. Be it Thanksgiving, Avatar 1, Avatar 2 or even Avatar 3

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-reminder-thanksgiving-celebrates-a-myth-of-colonialism-and-white-proprietorship-of-the-u-s.1365442/page-3#post-148165093

You think this is bad? Go look at any thread about Avatar (the James Cameron movies).

[benji]

Not only are people acting like they don't exist anymore, but they also act like many of them are not still fighting against genocide right now... like literally right now.

[clockwork5]

My girl and I go out for Chinese food every Thanksgiving. 

Hasan would be proud.

[Hap Shaughnessy]

Totally not Nepenthe highlighted a post:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-reminder-thanksgiving-celebrates-a-myth-of-colonialism-and-white-proprietorship-of-the-u-s.1365442/page-2#post-148162126

[Snoopy]

I don't think the black and Native American history experts of ree know that the five tribes had black slaves.