Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[kaleidoscopium]

It's also sadly predictable how this is going to be treated as a mental health issue in a way that has never applied to when Buddhist priests do it

https://www.resetera.com/threads/aaron-bushnell-us-airman-sets-himself-on-fire-in-protest-of-palestinian-genocide-outside-israeli-embassy.821301/?post=119715117#post-119715117

[Boredfrom]

I'm just curious if there are any games that sound the way the english script of that game does, but in japanese

like if you took the english script there and did a direct translation into japanese, would they think you're insane, do they simply never talk/write that way

would they think it's boring, corny and wordy like english speakers do

I think a huge problem is also that Japanese is highly contextual language. Somebody could say very little in a direct translation but there is a lot missing giving the tone and kanji used. I don’t speak or can read Japanese, but as I understand there is possibility of a lot of double meanings also being lost if you go the straight forward route. 

I just feel there is need to be a balance and the growing mistrust to translators is not entirely unjustified (while also could come from an ignorant place).

[Uncle]

because it's a repressed language and culture where you're not supposed to say what you're really thinking or feeling so you have to dance around everything, you can't say "you are smoking hot and I can't wait to rail you on every piece of furniture in this house" instead you have to say "the flowers are in bloom" or some shit

[Boredfrom]

because it's a repressed language and culture where you're not supposed to say what you're really thinking or feeling so you have to dance around everything, you can't say "you are smoking hot and I can't wait to rail you on every piece of furniture in this house" instead you have to say "the flowers are in bloom" or some shit

 

Glad you understand that part. Now imagine why is a pain in the ass to translate and why some people found enjoyment in this play of words.

[Uncle]

the problem with that is, it's not that every phrase has a hidden coded meaning understood by all native speakers which can be accurately localized, it'd be just as confusing and ripe for misunderstanding in any other culture

when you say "the flowers are in bloom" because you want to rail her, she might be oblivious and think you meant that you're sad because your grandma died

[Boredfrom]

the problem with that is, it's not that every phrase has a hidden coded meaning understood by all native speakers which can be accurately localized, it'd be just as confusing and ripe for misunderstanding in any other culture

when you say "the flowers are in bloom" because you want to rail her, she might be oblivious and think you meant that you're sad because your grandma died

Again, that why is a pain on the ass and a direct translation would probably also not work if is important that the character misunderstood what were you saying.  

Is like “The Hermano” situation in Arrested Development X1000

[Boredfrom]

the problem with that is, it's not that every phrase has a hidden coded meaning understood by all native speakers which can be accurately localized, it'd be just as confusing and ripe for misunderstanding in any other culture

when you say "the flowers are in bloom" because you want to rail her, she might be oblivious and think you meant that you're sad because your grandma died

You could also argue this is not exclusive of Japanese but way more prevalent because how language evolved there for cultural reasons.  

You will be surprised in how many hidden meanings western writers have hide in their works or people misunderstood for years.

[Boredfrom]

I wish he had gotten the support and help he needed for his mental health. What an awful thing to happen.

These types of protests are rarely about mental health.

You know that is not what that user meant. You don’t immolate yourself while being perfectly sane. Martyrdom thinking is probably the last thing you guys need to promote in this conflict.

[kaleidoscopium]

The media reports on horrific acts toward other people in great detail on a regular basis.

The reason why these headlines are so vague has everything to do with the anti-Palestine bias of the American media.

Just say what you really want to say Jeff Marvel, nepenthe will back your antisemitic rants up

[AldusMoneyPenny]

Lot of weeb care posting going on ITT RN. Not feeling very safe...

[HaughtyFrank]

The media reports on horrific acts toward other people in great detail on a regular basis.

The reason why these headlines are so vague has everything to do with the anti-Palestine bias of the American media.

Just say what you really want to say Jeff Marvel, nepenthe will back your antisemitic rants up

Always annoys me when they only point at the headline and then ignore that the article talks plenty about the motives. Like who the hell reads that headline and thinks "oh well, nothing to see here, just another servicemen setting himself on fire, no need to learn more"

[Besticus Maximus]

I’m canny tempted by the 13 sentinels follow up. I just need some trusted confirmation that it rules.

[Boredfrom]

Going to treat "translation" and "localisation" separately because they're different skillsets / generally don't happen at the same time even if the same person is doing them.

The general quality of E->J translation in the media is shockingly bad, IMO, in particular anything that's not written in a very flat standard American voice. Genre stuff in particular (SF/F) is really poorly served. I don't know if it's low pay, low skills, or just time pressures, but it's p common for translators to just make up Japanese words for fairly standard (if niche) terms to do with magic, or imaginary science, and if those terms are non-US slang then it is even worse.

IMO J->E media tends to be massively over-localised (and I'm saying this as a native English speaker who isn't American) which I would argue is because the original writing isn't well respected enough (the "it's so dry" statements you can see over and over again) but the CHUDs saying "oh it's political!" are wrong and making any possible discussion of the issue impossible

You need to ruin the post with “but the CHUDS”  

Real talk: is also your fault guys, how many people in that thread are genuinely saying “glad the changed it to piss the CHUDS” or “it was shit to begin with. Glad they fixed”. Is not only the CHUDs that act like toxic assholes. The localizers in that thread are acting rude and condescending, why are surprised that people have trust issues? 

You want dialogue? Let’s stop pretending only assholes want better translations, that being condescending with the work you are localizing is not the best defense, that people CAN use this shit to spread political agendas that has nothing to do with games. That localization can, in fact, delve into censorship even if is approved by the pusblishers, and that people can make mistakes in both sides.

[kaleidoscopium]

The amount of pushback B-Dumbs got (for seemingly being correct) is hilarious. On why they don't include WHY this retard lit himself on fire in protest:

That's probably because they don't want people doing copycats.

Come on now.

More like they don't want to acknowledge the atrocities committed by Israel.

already posted but jeff marvels:

The media reports on horrific acts toward other people in great detail on a regular basis.

The reason why these headlines are so vague has everything to do with the anti-Palestine bias of the American media.

I very much doubt that's the reason why.

Seriously dude wtf.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/aaron-bushnell-us-airman-sets-himself-on-fire-in-protest-of-palestinian-genocide-outside-israeli-embassy.821301/?post=119716068#post-119716068





Bonus virtue signalling

It's so disrespectful to be making assumptions about his mental health. The climate scientist who self-immolated in 2022 did it as an act of climate protest. No further reporting showed any mental health issues. Do we assume people who go on hunger strikes are also suffering from mental health issues?

[Boredfrom]

Lit yourself in fire seems to be an extreme way for not just killing yourself but protest about the involvement of the military industrial complex in the conflict. Again, for a forum that claims to be progressive they have a pretty archaic way of seeing martyrdom as a viable form of protest, specially since they are paranoid enough to believe the “Zionist cabal” is burying this act of “heroism”.

[Boredfrom]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/aaron-bushnell-us-airman-sets-himself-on-fire-in-protest-of-palestinian-genocide-outside-israeli-embassy.821301/page-2?post=119720661#post-119720661

therapyandpillstrickyourbrainman.jpge

Holy shit, this post. This is the last shit you should encourage in a forum where there is a suicidal thread every week.

[HaughtyFrank]

Going to treat "translation" and "localisation" separately because they're different skillsets / generally don't happen at the same time even if the same person is doing them.

The general quality of E->J translation in the media is shockingly bad, IMO, in particular anything that's not written in a very flat standard American voice. Genre stuff in particular (SF/F) is really poorly served. I don't know if it's low pay, low skills, or just time pressures, but it's p common for translators to just make up Japanese words for fairly standard (if niche) terms to do with magic, or imaginary science, and if those terms are non-US slang then it is even worse.

IMO J->E media tends to be massively over-localised (and I'm saying this as a native English speaker who isn't American) which I would argue is because the original writing isn't well respected enough (the "it's so dry" statements you can see over and over again) but the CHUDs saying "oh it's political!" are wrong and making any possible discussion of the issue impossible

You need to ruin the post with “but the CHUDS”  

Real talk: is also your fault guys, how many people in that thread are genuinely saying “glad the changed it to piss the CHUDS” or “it was shit to begin with. Glad they fixed”. Is not only the CHUDs that act like toxic assholes. The localizers in that thread are acting rude and condescending, why are surprised that people have trust issues? 

You want dialogue? Let’s stop pretending only assholes want better translations, that being condescending with the work you are localizing is not the best defense, that people CAN use this shit to spread political agendas that has nothing to do with games. That localization can, in fact, delve into censorship even if is approved by the pusblishers, and that people can make mistakes in both sides.

Yeah the whole conversation is super annoying. They absolutely love presenting it as if there's no such thing as a bad localization and that any and all changes can be excused, doubly so if they add some political spin to the text. Even more annoying because we actually have localizers openly being shit about the source material like the jelloapocalypse guy or localizers talking about how they're able to change a lot more than just the language like in a recent interview with Sega localizers:

One statement from Franck Genty, the senior localization manager at Bandai Namco attributes some of the changes to the #MeToo movement and that they need to tell “Japanese game developers dress their heroines”.

“We tell them that the cleavage is a bit too exposed, or the skirt is a bit too short… Before, they weren’t very flexible, but they’ve become more proactive on such subjects.”

https://nichegamer.com/localizers-admit-to-proactively-censoring-games-for-western-audiences/

Instead of actually addressing any of this they just pretend that it doesn't exist, and then when it exists it's actually good that it happens

[Polident]

One of the weird contradictions among modern fashion leftists is the saturation of mental health wellness and therapy and trauma over they parents saying no. But when a very clearly disturbed person commits a mass shooting or lights themselves on fire, suddenly mental illness isn’t a factor. Like, they think acknowledging mental illness somehow absolves other actions. Often because these guys use mental health as a shield against their own sociopathic and abusive behaviors. But it can be one of several factors. Typically it’s better to get these people help than encouraging these actions.

[Boredfrom]

Reminder that he gave his life for the Gaza population currently undergoing a genocide by a colonial power that the Western world is allowing to happen.

RIP Aaron.

No, he didn’t.

You are such an awful cunt.

[kaleidoscopium]

The media reports on horrific acts toward other people in great detail on a regular basis.

The reason why these headlines are so vague has everything to do with the anti-Palestine bias of the American media.

Just say what you really want to say Jeff Marvel, nepenthe will back your antisemitic rants up

Called it

[Boredfrom]

Going to treat "translation" and "localisation" separately because they're different skillsets / generally don't happen at the same time even if the same person is doing them.

The general quality of E->J translation in the media is shockingly bad, IMO, in particular anything that's not written in a very flat standard American voice. Genre stuff in particular (SF/F) is really poorly served. I don't know if it's low pay, low skills, or just time pressures, but it's p common for translators to just make up Japanese words for fairly standard (if niche) terms to do with magic, or imaginary science, and if those terms are non-US slang then it is even worse.

IMO J->E media tends to be massively over-localised (and I'm saying this as a native English speaker who isn't American) which I would argue is because the original writing isn't well respected enough (the "it's so dry" statements you can see over and over again) but the CHUDs saying "oh it's political!" are wrong and making any possible discussion of the issue impossible

You need to ruin the post with “but the CHUDS”  

Real talk: is also your fault guys, how many people in that thread are genuinely saying “glad the changed it to piss the CHUDS” or “it was shit to begin with. Glad they fixed”. Is not only the CHUDs that act like toxic assholes. The localizers in that thread are acting rude and condescending, why are surprised that people have trust issues? 

You want dialogue? Let’s stop pretending only assholes want better translations, that being condescending with the work you are localizing is not the best defense, that people CAN use this shit to spread political agendas that has nothing to do with games. That localization can, in fact, delve into censorship even if is approved by the pusblishers, and that people can make mistakes in both sides.

Yeah the whole conversation is super annoying. They absolutely love presenting it as if there's no such thing as a bad localization and that any and all changes can be excused, doubly so if they add some political spin to the text. Even more annoying because we actually have localizers openly being shit about the source material like the jelloapocalypse guy or localizers talking about how they're able to change a lot more than just the language like in a recent interview with Sega localizers:

One statement from Franck Genty, the senior localization manager at Bandai Namco attributes some of the changes to the #MeToo movement and that they need to tell “Japanese game developers dress their heroines”.

“We tell them that the cleavage is a bit too exposed, or the skirt is a bit too short… Before, they weren’t very flexible, but they’ve become more proactive on such subjects.”

https://nichegamer.com/localizers-admit-to-proactively-censoring-games-for-western-audiences/

Instead of actually addressing any of this they just pretend that it doesn't exist, and then when it exists it's actually good that it happens

I don’t mind that much when Japan studios ask colleagues in other branches about whenever something can be “acceptable” or not. At least that is better than outright botching half of the game in localization and actually can improve others creativity. The only objection I can think is when they hire grifters like Anita Sarkesian that genuinely don’t give a fuck about the creative process.

Is also silly mention AI translations as some sort of “equalizer” given that they can be as bad or worse than direct translations.

[Boredfrom]

I wish we could do without the dismissal of his courage and protest against genocide, but i wonder if that requires too many to see that genocide for what it is.
Perhaps instead of denying the man his final words, we could be moved to act in his memory and empower his name with a fraction of the courage that moved him, and still mourn not just his passing but also that of the thousands the genocide is taking from us.

Ayyy, fuck you. You don’t care and is pretty disgusting how you pretend you do.

“Taking from us” and still not words for the Hamas’ attasck. You guys are the ones doing a disservice for all the people suffering in this conflict. 

Self righteous pieces of shit.

[Polident]

Always this balance with American audiences for Eastern Euro and Japanese media. They get noticed for their cultural idiosyncrasies. There’s an attempt to capitalize on it by tailoring the media for Americans. The elements people liked are diluted by conforming to mainstream values.

I’m sure there are charts and graphs about markets or whatever. But trying to picture a group of localizers translating suicide squad into Japanese saying to make Harley less ugly and give her big knockers. Like they used to do with Ratchet’s eyebrows.

[Boredfrom]

Much of the discussion online I've seen about Aaron is directly related to the Palestinian genocide; people are directly noting the cause as to why he did this and making personal statements and art in response.

It's really only here that I've personally seen his protest completely hijacked and derailed to discuss mental health instead.

Where online? Who? Is it people who were already talking about it a lot? A lot of this is an echo chamber of people patting themselves on the back for spreading the message to people who felt the exact same in the first place. In this thread alone more discussion has been about the efficacy of this type of protest than the actual genocide

Twitter 
Twitter users.

 

Just type in Aaron Bushnell and there's far more mention about Palestine and Gaza than what can be mustered here by people who say they claim they care about minorities.

  


You understand that the minority faction are Israel? How most of the Middle East loves to use it as a scapegoat for their problems. 

Reading some of the gross responses in this thread makes me think of the infamous Kwame Ture quote about the problem with non-violent protest:

"Dr. King's policy was that nonviolence would achieve the gains for black people in the United States. His major assumption was that if you are nonviolent, if you suffer, your opponent will see your suffering and will be moved to change his heart. That's very good. He only made one fallacious assumption: In order for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none."

[Besticus Maximus]

That forum is basically a ball hair away from ‘Jihad fucking rules’ and nepenthe is the one driving it.

[kaleidoscopium]

2 week ban for this… hit dog holler alright 

I do not think it wise to frame self immolation suicide as a noble endeavor of giving your life for a cause.

It’s tantamount to endorsement and shameful.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/aaron-bushnell-us-airman-sets-himself-on-fire-in-protest-of-palestinian-genocide-outside-israeli-embassy.821301/page-2?post=119723562#post-119723562

[Boredfrom]

It won't. And it was a waste of a life.

As is the thousands of Palestinians who have been killed as a result of Western-sanctioned genocide.

And what about those that also died in the initial attack? They dont count? It was also a waste of life, killed unnecessarily to extend a unwinnable conflict. Not better than what Netanyahu is doing. 

Say what you want to say, you cunt.

[Boredfrom]

2 week ban for this… hit dog holler alright 

I do not think it wise to frame self immolation suicide as a noble endeavor of giving your life for a cause.

It’s tantamount to endorsement and shameful.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/aaron-bushnell-us-airman-sets-himself-on-fire-in-protest-of-palestinian-genocide-outside-israeli-embassy.821301/page-2?post=119723562#post-119723562

User banned (2 weeks): misrepresenting other members; prior history of inflammatory and dismissive commentary

Have yet to ban this asshole for dismissing mental health: 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/aaron-bushnell-us-airman-sets-himself-on-fire-in-protest-of-palestinian-genocide-outside-israeli-embassy.821301/page-2?post=119720661#post-119720661

[kaleidoscopium]

I’m sure 3 mods signed off on the user banned for directly calling nepenthe out, 100% sure

[Daffy Duck]

How long until the first self immolation in support of the ongoing trans genocide?