Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[benji]

Kyuuji or Amanda Cerny as she's known in certain quarters.

Nice try, AI, you can't trick him.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

I have luscious long hair tyvm

twinning! 

[Jonsey]

So when Kamala hates Muslims it’s fine but when I do it’s racist. This fucking world …

[Cauliflower Of Love]

So crazy how easy it is to manipulate era threads from here.

[benji]

I saw B-Dubs at a grocery store in New York yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

[benji]

[benji]

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

At this point HamasEra is just being a nuisance. B-dubs, they're only making these threads to brow beat your Kamala supporters. It's the same shit every thread. Not a good look having CCP shills interfere in Resetera elections. 

[D3RANG3D]

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

[Ethan]

At this point HamasEra is just being a nuisance. B-dubs, they're only making these threads to brow beat your Kamala supporters. It's the same shit every thread. Not a good look having CCP shills interfere in Resetera elections. 

It's at least the 20th thread in the last few months going exact the same way:
-I won't vote for the genocidal Dems!
-Then you'll get genocided even more!
-The Arabs are leaving in drove!
-The Jews are leaving in drove!

Then, depending on who between B-dubs or Nep is awake, a bunch of people get lengthy or permanent bans.

Despite the bans, they start again the next day, with a seemingly endless pool of bickerers. How is that mathematically possible?
 

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1g9ubkr/twitch_creator_hasan_piker_linking_to_donations/

https://old.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1g9r9ri/frogan_and_friends_wanted_to_do_a_911_baking/

Fuck this fat stuffed smug sausage cunt

And fuck anyone who likes Hasan.

Uhm chuddie? Please post streamer takes https://thebore.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=334&pid=87842 so we can uplift our newly made thread.

Streamers deserve no rights btw.

[EaldNarche]

At this point hamas-era is so annoying it's making me want to go plant a tree in Israel.

[benji]

This dude is trying so hard:

I legitimately fail to understand how the anti-Harris posters in these threads look at the current situation and simply don't acknowledge the trolley problem right in front of us.
There are two options presented to us.

Option 1:
Kamala Harris wins, and the Palestine genocide continues.

Option 2:
Donald Trump wins, and the Palestine genocide continues, and other genocides start.

Voting for a different candidate, doing a write-in, or not voting will not change either of these outcomes.

If you vote for Jill Stein, either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump will win and the Palestine genocide will continue.
If you vote for Chase Oliver, either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump will win and the Palestine genocide will continue.
If you vote for Randall Terry, either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump will win and the Palestine genocide will continue.
If you vote for Cornel West, either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump will win and the Palestine genocide will continue.
If you write-in, either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump will win and the Palestine genocide will continue.
If you do not vote, either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump will win and the Palestine genocide will continue.

This is a serious question to you:
Out of the six options I presented above, which of them results in the Palestine genocide stopping?

I hope you aren't in sales man 😂

Your line of reasoning suppresses the vote for people whose main issue is Palestine.

The main thing people are frustrated by is that just because Trump is worse, that doesn't mean democrats can't be better. They are choosing to use Trump as the baseline moral standard and being slightly better. It doesn't inspire anything.

My line of reasoning acknowledges the reality that there is nothing that we can legally do to stop the genocide before the election.
There IS no anti-Palestine genocide option here!

Do you want me to lie to you and tell you that we're totally gonna stop what's happening, or do you want to actually talk about the problems in our political system?

I am *aware* that Democrats can be better.
I am also aware that it's infinitely easier to affect change when you and every left-leaning or minority person in this country is not living under the thumb of a right-wing fascist theocracy.

I'm not gonna bother listening to advice that sounds similar to what folks were saying when Biden was the candidate. We were also not supposed to criticize him or demand for an end to supporting Israel even late last year when it was evident that a genocide was unfolding. If enough folks stopped towing the Dem Party talking points then Biden would be out earlier and Israel would not have unwavering support as it conducts a genocide and has maintained decades of apartheid.

You can call that pie in the sky, but I am unwilling to accept the wrong side of history as the only choice, even as I am told there is always a hypothetical worse, but never a hypothetical better. It takes the masses to move mountains, but our historical trajectory this year has shown us that we have mountains to move, so no sense getting in our own way.

The wrong side of history is standing by and doing nothing when the threat of a Donald Trump administration bulldozing every left-aligned or minority person in the country and setting off a chain reaction of right-wing support throughout the world is right in front of us.
The wrong side of history is not doing what you can to stop the immediate threat to the entire planet with the simple action of voting.

Feel free to go look through my post history in every single one of these threads.
There has not been a single post from me in which I've said that Biden was my ideal candidate or had an ideal platform.
There has not been a single post from me in which I've said that Harris was my ideal candidate or had an ideal platform.
There has not been a single post from me in which I've supported our government's actions in supporting this genocide, and I've actively voiced my frustration with the fact that my tax dollars are funding a genocide and that there's nothing that I can do to stop it.

What I *can* do is vote to prevent additional genocides from starting outside of Palestine.

I understand why you're angry. I understand why you don't like Harris. I don't like her either.

What I don't understand is why you're willing to risk things getting even worse than they already are simply because Harris is a terrible candidate.
You all keep talking about left-aligned people needing to fight for the Muslims. Who is going to be left to fight for you when the fascists come for us too?

"Things are already bad in Palestine" is not an answer when there is no option that makes things in Palestine better.

They will.

The only option people have for "the good candidate" to hear them is withdraw their votes. They've been ignored everywhere else, including an invited Muslim representative who was just fucking sitting there.

And you're telling them "nah, throw the Palestinians on the fire for a better tomorrow." Not demanding Harris does better, not denouncing the inherent Islamophobia, not condemning the AIPAC's tendrils all over this shit.

No, you're telling people that demand that a Democratic candidate stop supporting a genocide, to shut up and get back in line. Including those who are witnessing this shit happening to their families.

That's you. "Good side of history" my ass.

Nobody is saying to throw the Palestinians on the fire for a better tomorrow.
We're saying that the Palestinians are being thrown on the fire regardless of what we do, so giving up the chance of a better tomorrow when we can't stop what's happening is ridiculous.

I have asked several times in this thread and several people have quoted my posts yet not a single person has answered.

What option do we have available to us that stops the genocide?
Please answer the question.

Not give the genocide enablers our vote.
"Oh but they both ain't stopping"
Then don't vote for neither and vote 3rd party, write-in, or vote for the down ticket races for those who share your views

There the question is answered

How does that stop the genocide?

Which of these options stops the genocide?

I appreciate voting down-ballot but down-ballot candidates are not the President and are not in charge of the military and do not have the power to stop the genocide.

Plus more of that Muslim outreach:

If it's one thing I learned as an Arab / Muslim American.

People fucking hate us.

Man even after 911, I didn't feel this bad for fellow Muslims. Maybe recency bias but I thought after 911, we had allies among the liberals many of them actually turned on us and supporting the genocide.

Oh, look who's here:

What option do we have available to us that stops the genocide?
Please answer the question.

If you don't believe Jill Stein (which I don't blame you lol), then there is no option that outright stops it.

But you nonetheless have a personal choice to make on whether or not the genocide is your red line for participation in this election. If it's not, that's the choice you live with, as we all do by participating in this farcical democracy within an imperial death machine. Vote for Kamala, but don't chastise others who had a red line that you didn't. 🤷🏿‍♀️

And you're not gonna stop a genocide electorally if you're forced to vote for a candidate that supports genocide. At that point it shows that the American democracy contradiction has reached such a heightened state that it should ring off alarm bells.

Genocides are at their root illegal crimes against humanity, so trying to find an electoral solution to that quagmire under two nations that exist because of colonialism, apartheid and genocide- which is now absolutely bolted into their foundations by capital- is going to twist heads into knots.

Yeah, you can't vote out colonialism in a colonial system.

Like.

He's going after the Queen:

No option stops the genocide.

Okay, thank you for actually saying it.
We do not have an option that stops the Palestine genocide, so we vote for the option that doesn't result in additional genocides on top of the one we can't stop.

But not voting doesn't make you complicit in enabling an ongoing genocide.

This means, you as an individual have a moral red line you aren't willing to cross. As opposed to being an individual who'd vote for the most abhorrent of candidates so long as the other side was worse.

Plus, bright side, Harris campaign is telling Muslims/similarly minded folks they don't need their votes.

So folks get to not vote and Harris wins because obviously politicians make political calculus based moves that never backfire.

Not voting doesn't make you complicit in the ongoing genocide because we're already complicit by default since our tax dollars are funding it.
We do what we can to change that once the candidate who isn't a fascist that will invoke the Insurrection Act to stop protest has won the election.

You talk about not stopping the genocide by voting for either of them. Option you know the write-in or not voting is still option 3. Even if the genocide doesn't end neither of the candidates have done nothing to earn the vote. Like I get it you don't like nor understand that not voting is a option. Voting matters and if the candidate hasn't done enough to earn your vote, you don't give it to them.

The thing that you consider to be a third option will result in one of the two aforementioned options happening.
Do you legitimately believe that a candidate that is not a Democrat or a Republican has a chance of winning in our current political system?
This is a serious question.

If you don't believe Jill Stein (which I don't blame you lol), then there is no option that outright stops it.

But you nonetheless have a personal choice to make on whether or not the genocide is your red line for participation in this election. If it's not, that's the choice you live with, as we all do by participating in this farcical democracy within an imperial death machine. Vote for Kamala, but don't chastise others who had a red line that you didn't. 🤷🏿‍♀️

I respect having a red line but I don't understand having that red line, seeing that there isn't an option that prevents that red line from being crossed, seeing that there is an option that will lead to that red line being crossed again and again with other minorities, and not choosing the option that only crosses one red line instead of.... well, as many as you can think of, I guess.

Like, I get your logic. The red line is genocide. Genocide is bad. We don't support genocide. Cool. Solidarity.

We can't stop the current genocide but we can stop more of them from happening.
Looking at it as a leftist that's against genocide, how is that not an obvious choice on how to proceed?

You don't have to support Harris' genocide to be against Trump's genocides.

As you said in the other thread, we have to accept the bad with the good.
I own up to the fact that Harris is shitty.
I also own up to the fact that I don't want a fascist to win.

I respect having a red line but I don't understand having that red line

It's....

It's a genocide.

The fuck you mean you don't understand???

How do you think the genocide will ever be stopped if Democrats can count on your vote regardless? In your two party system one of the parties has to change. It definitely won't be Republicans, but how will it ever be Democrats if they face no consequence?

Please share any alternative ideas you think might be effective. I think your logic will eventually harm reduce Palestinians out of existence.

I don't, at least not in any time scale that will stop the Palestinians from being wiped out.

I want to be clear, I am not saying that this is some sort of inevitability or acceptable loss.
I'm saying that the most powerful military force in the world is going to do what it's going to do, and it's being backed by billionaires and nation-states with the resources to snuff out anyone attempting to stop them.

The solution to this is sustained change, by continually voting in enough Dems that we no longer need to capitulate to Republicans or AIPAC just to get any sort of victories, then begin changing our stances from there.

The solution is constitutional change to the way that our country is run, by changing our voting system to make it so that we're not stuck voting for the lesser of two evils every cycle.

The solution is massive reform to our government.

I am aware that this is not something that will happen quickly, and it probably won't happen entirely within our lifetimes.

I do think it's more likely to happen than stopping the forever wars fuelled largely by corruption and abrahamic religious fervor, though.

It's....

It's a genocide.

The fuck you mean you don't understand???

It's a simple question with a simple answer.

What is worse, one genocide or two genocides?

 ban incoming

Flipside of the post i made above, you're making a moral input argument to someone who appears to be focused exclusively on comparing outcomes. Deontelogical vs utilitarian.

I understand that.

But it's like...

When people ask "how could people allow Jim Crow to happen?!" this is how.

This is literally a historical moment for people to at least try and prove they learned a little bit from the ancestors fighting far more dangerous battles against much more bleak odds than we are right now.

And all of the lessons are being ignored. And then it's gonna be another 30 years with folks asking "Why were people okay with Gaza?" and folks are either going to lie and say they were truly down with the struggle or shrug their shoulders about how people in the past just had "different standards" and "didn't know any better."

While they're not fighting ecological collapse of course because that's a thing that's also being allowed to happen. Line must go up.

I'm tired.

[benji]

What option do we have available to us that stops the genocide?
Please answer the question.

You don't get to put that on people, ' either do the thing I want, vote for a person who supports the genocide, or do the thing you want which is not support anyone, but I will interpret that as supporting the one who also supports the genocide, based solely on some conditions I set.' Like the thing you're asking isn't even solvable by either state so you're offering a path to a logical conclusion that is only attainable by leaping, and demanding a choice from a set of options people aren't even agreeing to.

The sad answer is neither option stops the genocide and even you have to concede that. What option do we have as voters to stop the genocide? Through our votes? Is the answer supposed to be hope? The Democrats strategically avoid the issue during the election season to avoid offending a major Dem voting bloc. How fucking cynical is it, how fucking craven, how depressing to see it just broken down to business? And what a business it is, politicians get millions or hundreds of thousands from lobbyists, and Israel gets billions in dollars and billions more in military hardware and supplies. And it's no big deal, America's a wealthy nation, and Israel is a very close friend and ally, so that money is still working for American interests, right? I see people tacitly referring to it in the news as the Democrat's "weakness" or loss of political capital and "lack of political will on Israel" when it all comes down to not wanting to lose votes or make waves that could upset things in an election season. Solely because it's low stakes and a choice beterrn 'bad people' or our friend. This is how the rest of the world seems to see the US, not as Blinken and the Biden Administration's valiant struggle to bring peace back to the middle east, but America doing American things while people get killed.

[Echelon]

I just don't understand how they over complicate this fucking shit.

A person walks into your bedroom and tells you they will shoot you. They will let you pick whether they shoot you in the head or the pinky toe, but they're shooting you one way or another. Any rational person picks the pinky toe instead of screaming "YOU SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO SHOOT ME AT ALL, I'M NOT GOING ALONG WITH THIS BULLSHIT!".

[ComeAgain]

“The fuck you mean you don’t understand”

This right after the meltdowns because someone ELSE talked like this to Nep and “if anyone who wasn’t a mod did this, they’d be banned”

Thank God you willingly bent over the edge of the bed though, Bdubs. Was that apology worth it?

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

I don't know why neolib era keeps trying to talk with them. They're not going to see the light. The best thing PoliEra can do is let those threads die while being filled with the same HamasEra posters complaining about the same shit. They want you to take the bait, PoliEra!

[benji]

I love how Nepenthe's all "IT'S A GENOCIDE THIS IS A HISTORICAL MOMENT" and then turns around and goes "also we need to exterminate most of the population of the Earth as quickly as possible" and nobody there even blinks.

[benji]

A person walks into your bedroom and tells you they will shoot you. They will let you pick whether they shoot you in the head or the pinky toe, but they're shooting you one way or another. Any rational person picks the pinky toe instead of screaming "YOU SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO SHOOT ME AT ALL, I'M NOT GOING ALONG WITH THIS BULLSHIT!".

And your brand of centrism is exactly why we don't have Basic Human Decency™ and dignified lives. 

[benji]

Vipershark and the staff allies on his side in that thread need to refine his original argument as he's a bit all over the place.

In the complainers reasoning the Palestinian "genocide" will occur no matter what, so therefore the issue is not salient, all other issues are. Therefore Harris wins as she is superior (from their point of view) on all other issues.

The Nepenthe side is arguing that the genocide outweighs all other issues combined and is also not essential enough to make any decisions towards actual action based on. As I mentioned a few days (weeks at this point?) ago, they're rejecting both principled non-voting and single issue voting for a stance that exists solely to excuse them from having to do anything and can be used at any time because no candidate will be pure on everything. (Such as how they reject Jill Stein whenever she's mentioned. They won't even consider Chase Oliver or Cornel West.)

It's not a deontological vs. utilitarian split (as that poster Nepenthe quoted) because there's no deontological position being advocated. The genocide side is at best a consequentialist one.

edit: To take the argument that it is because the rule is no genocides, this fails because of their rejection of the other candidates. If we eliminate Stein for supporting genocide in Ukraine and Oliver for supporting genocide by not outlawing Stellar Blade that still leaves Cornel West. Yet none of them advocate for this, they argue for refusing to participate so the Democratic Party will seek to adopt their position even though it's currently ignoring them and they're not voting. They're clearly factoring in that a vote/advocating for West will not end the genocide. So consequentialist.

[EaldNarche]

The protest vote handwringers know that as soon as the election is over everyone is going to stop caring about them so they're milking it for all its worth now. My guess is most of them are going to suck it up come election day and vote for Mamala anyway. It's all just histrionic attention seeking. 

[benji]

When it gets to genocide, it doesn't matter anymore if there's one or two. They're equally unacceptable.

Neither.

So just to be clear, so that I understand this viewpoint:
Are you saying that there's no difference between "Palestinians being killed" and "Palestinians, LGBT people, black people, latino people, Asian people, Jewish people, women, non-Christians, and anyone left-leaning being killed"?

This is not bait or a troll question.
I am legitimately trying to understand whether or not you acknowledge that one of these options is going to result in a whole lot more people dying.

Yep, definitely being banned now.

edit:

I just don't understand how they over complicate this fucking shit.

A person walks into your bedroom and tells you they will shoot you. They will let you pick whether they shoot you in the head or the pinky toe, but they're shooting you one way or another. Any rational person picks the pinky toe instead of screaming "YOU SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO SHOOT ME AT ALL, I'M NOT GOING ALONG WITH THIS BULLSHIT!".

Replies to the above:

I'm not going to choose to eliminate an entire group of people if this is what your question is asking. I simply oppose a genocide against any and all peoples and we should never rationalize it through poorly thought out hypothetical questions.

Yes, Trump will do exponentially more damage than Harris or Biden, but we should demand our leadership to not support a genocide if we fashion ourselves as a liberal democracy.

I think one group looks at three genocides versus one and obviously concludes that one is better than three. The problem is that logic guarantees that the one will never become zero.

The other group looks at it and thinks that they could pressure Democrats to get that one to a zero. The problem is that it carries a higher risk of getting the worst outcome of three.

If someone believes there is a way to get to zero genocide you need to convince them that Palestinians aren't worth the risk. You also need to accept that people may not be comfortable with a harm-reduction approach that will consistently sacrifice Palestinians for everyone else's sake.

If someone asks you if you want one genocide or twenty genocides, why would you answer you would rather have one genocide in the first place? Why do we need to quantify genocides in the first place? How about we stop this horseshit and actually talk about the failures of our moral leadership that brought us to this point?

[benji]

Would this not have happened under Trump? Would it not have been worse and at a faster rate where even more people would have been massacred?

There is no worse at this point. Y'all need to stop trying to quantify genocides.

Regardless, Trump also signing off on it is why I'm not demanding anyone vote for him.

Because I'm not five and I can understand one genocide is better than 20? You know your ideals lead to way more harm than mines, right?

You talk to me about dodging the question, but the answer to that premise is revolting, as you just laid out. Why do we need to accept genocide in the first place? There's a simple answer to that question.

Can y'all please start banning folks who do this kind of shit? I'm Palestinian and the fact that we have allowed folks on here to turn this into some sort of trolley problem, placing less importance on Palestinian lives than others, is grotesque.

[benji]

Also, saying that a genocide can't be stopped isn't something that we as humans, good individuals, should ever say, not even dare to utter. To flirt with that notion is what lets that rot come to fruition. We have to kill those thoughts, to never accept the worst as inevitable. These atrocities are man made, they can be undone by man. But you have to think, speak, and reflect in order to act. So saying that a genocide is something we must concede to fundamentally eats at your humanity, and the potentialities of a better world.

Our options to stop the genocide are one of the following:

1. Fight the US and Israeli military to get them to stop killing people. With guns. Good luck.
2. Continue to protest, organize, educate, vote and affect change to change the system from within.

Unfortunately I don't believe that we have time to stop the current genocide from happening, but we *do* have time to stop future ones from ever happening.

I appreciate the ideal that you fight for, but our society doesn't seem to be quite ready for that yet.

[EaldNarche]

Viper is talking too much sense, he's not gonna last. I wonder what the ban reason will be. Antagonizing fellow users by trying to make them face reality?

[Potato]

Well in other news…
https://www.resetera.com/threads/detroit-muslim-leader-ejected-from-kamala-harris-rally-deepening-rift-between-democrats-and-arab-americans-detroit-metro-times-10-22-24.1016778/

Guess who that guy they kicked out is? If you guessed the guy responsible for getting rid of pride flags in his district, then you are 100% correct!

Well in other news…
https://www.resetera.com/threads/detroit-muslim-leader-ejected-from-kamala-harris-rally-deepening-rift-between-democrats-and-arab-americans-detroit-metro-times-10-22-24.1016778/

Guess who that guy they kicked out is? If you guessed the guy responsible for getting rid of pride flags in his district, then you are 100% correct!

"Pride", "LGBT", and "gay" have not appeared on the first 3 pages. Will a brave soul bring this up?

Ahmed Ghanim, co-founder of the Metro Detroit Political Action Network, a group that was created to fight against social, environmental, and racial injustice after Trump was elected, told [QAnon wacko Michael] Flynn that he had organized “protests against [Flynn’s] comments in the past.” But, Ghanim said, Muslims and Republicans are now fighting for a common cause.

“You said all cultures are not morally equivalent. You said Islam was a cancer. In 2015 you said you were at war with Islam for a decade,” Ghanim said. “I don’t expect you to change how you view Islam or Muslims. Working in a coalition is different than loving each other because it’s not a romantic relationship. It’s a political coalition we are forming here.”

Ghanim said he was worried that Trump’s influence will “make Michigan lose the election as what happened last time.”

https://michiganadvance.com/2023/10/03/how-some-michigan-muslims-united-with-extremist-republicans-against-lgbtq-rights/

Harris campaign 'regrets' removal of Muslim Democrat at rally, says he's welcome at future events

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2024/10/22/harris-campaign-regrets-muslims-removal-from-rally-says-hes-welcome/75796758007/

How dumb are they for falling for this shit again and again?

B-Dumbs and democrats need to understand that you DON'T need to apologise for every perceived transgression. Sometimes people should just be ignored.

[benji]

Viper is talking too much sense, he's not gonna last. I wonder what the ban reason will be. Antagonizing fellow users by trying to make them face reality?

Dismissing concerns of delusional fantasies.

[benji]

A number of posters actually dismiss the idea that you have to be part of a coalition first before the coalition will pay attention to your demands.

[Propagandhim]

"Y'all need to stop quantifying genocides"

*After counting up the genocides to dozens"

[benji]

"Y'all need to stop quantifying genocides"

*After counting up the genocides to dozens"

"One genocide is too many. I refuse to endorse them."

but also

"This is the genocide that finally convinced me to withhold my vote."